N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

Those Wood Apes are smart ! This one survived a deflected shot only took off the top !

Edited September 25, 2013 by GEARMAN

[Guest]

Maybe they could just mount an old Sherman tank up in a tree?

 

Now that's daft, you know you can only depress the gun 12 degrees, what if it was standing right underneath?

[norseman]

You knock the blocks out that is holding it in the tree!

 

 

See! FIXED!

[Guest UPs]

Norse.....the whole point of the black plastic is that they found the thermal can see through it while the observer remains totally hidden. It's actually a brilliant idea, but there are tradeoffs. I don't believe that raising the blind off the ground will work, but until they try it, its an unknown. They do know that the ground blind does work and it seems like this setup will be successful given time and opportunity. Shooting lanes work really well for game animals, but I doubt these animals will cooperate by exposing themselves in a shooting lane. I agree with you on the firearm and type of bullet. I started reloading last year and they may need someone to build the correct bullet based on the caliber and thermal they will be using. My own philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible as that will lessen the possibility of mistakes. The whole key to collecting a specimen is a way to observe them without them knowing and the NAWAC has figured a way to do this.....it's only a matter of time now, IMO.

Brian....if the NAWAC is interested in hand loads, I would be willing to make and test some over the winter. Your shooters may already reload and if so, they can build the perfect round for conditions and caliber. Before you guys decide what to use, I would talk to the thermal manufacturer and ask them if they actually tested the scope when determining how much recoil it can take. They may have just estimated what the maximum caliber that can be used and not done the actual testing. The 30-06 may not be the perfect rifle for this animal, but under almost any condition, it should do the job and if the shooter was using a rifle he wasn't comfortable with, he probably would not even have got a shot off in those conditions.

[norseman]

Norse.....the whole point of the black plastic is that they found the thermal can see through it while the observer remains totally hidden. It's actually a brilliant idea, but there are tradeoffs. I don't believe that raising the blind off the ground will work, but until they try it, its an unknown. They do know that the ground blind does work and it seems like this setup will be successful given time and opportunity. Shooting lanes work really well for game animals, but I doubt these animals will cooperate by exposing themselves in a shooting lane. I agree with you on the firearm and type of bullet. I started reloading last year and they may need someone to build the correct bullet based on the caliber and thermal they will be using. My own philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible as that will lessen the possibility of mistakes. The whole key to collecting a specimen is a way to observe them without them knowing and the NAWAC has figured a way to do this.....it's only a matter of time now, IMO.

 

 

I understand what they are doing, I played with FLIR while on the fire dept. You could actually look for hotspots through plaster board during clean up. Their problem is that the recoil of a .45-70 will fry the circuitry of the FLIR scope........so they were using a .30-06 instead. Because of deflection they want to go to a heavier grain bullet than is available for that caliber. So I was exploring other options available to them, such as taking away the FLIR scope and just mounting a Tac light on the .45-70. Which would require the plastic to come down.

 

 

If we were hunting Deer I would say..........leave the setup alone, and wait for the next one. Since Squatch is much more elusive, we need something more fool proof.

 

As to elevating the blind and adding shooting lanes? I would guess the cabins are in a clearing, and I have heard their reports of them running up and slapping the cabin..........when they felt they were not being watched. This would be an example of exposing themselves into a open area, yes?

[norseman]

BTW,

 

They do make FLIR scopes that can take the punishment.......

 

http://www.usnightvision.com/fliran/pvs-27s135magnumuniversalnightsightmuns.aspx

 

Time to send the hat around.

[Guest openminded skeptic]

1) Have you ever tried putting out bait?  Granted no one knows what a bigfoot eats, but in an operation like yours you could try several things to see if anything works.  You could hang it up high from a tree branch so that nothing but an 8' bigfoot could grab it.

 

2) Do the leaves on most of the trees down there fall off during the Fall?  If so, have you considered extending your operations into the Fall?  If there are less leaves on the trees, it would be a lot easier to see things through the forest.

 

3) What is your plan of action if you succeed?  How will you get the 800 lb body out? Or will you just take the head, an arm, whatever, enough to provide ironclad evidence?

[Guest]

3) What is your plan of action if you succeed?  How will you get the 800 lb body out? Or will you just take the head, an arm, whatever, enough to provide ironclad evidence?

We had a whip round last year and bought him 24 dozen mason jars, and a huge canning pot, the rest they'll have to make jerky with, if there's enough after the rib roast party of course.

[Guest]

1) Have you ever tried putting out bait?  Granted no one knows what a bigfoot eats, but in an operation like yours you could try several things to see if anything works.  You could hang it up high from a tree branch so that nothing but an 8' bigfoot could grab it.

Yes, to no avail. Apple piles go untouched except by little critters. They're around us enough at this point we no longer even try to bait them with food.

 

2) Do the leaves on most of the trees down there fall off during the Fall?  If so, have you considered extending your operations into the Fall?  If there are less leaves on the trees, it would be a lot easier to see things through the forest.

The leaves all fall off. Visibility is vastly improved. We do go in there in the fall and winter, but the close up encounters stop as soon as the cover disappears.

 

3) What is your plan of action if you succeed?  How will you get the 800 lb body out? Or will you just take the head, an arm, whatever, enough to provide ironclad evidence?

We have equipment in place to move a large animal carcass whole or in pieces. Some of our guys, having worked on ranches, have experience in that sort of thing.

[Guest]

The leaves all fall off. Visibility is vastly improved. We do go in there in the fall and winter, but the close up encounters stop as soon as the cover disappears.

 

Long suspected that. Ain't it typical though, the hot weather where you'd rather just plant yourself and cool off, you can't see squat and (in a non habituation type area) you have to do a lot of legwork to cover any amount of ground at all... whereas when you CAN see for 1/4 mile or so on the flat and long range optics are possible, you don't wanna sit around and freeze your butt off.

 

On the apples... Could one consider it possible that they have seasonal dietary taboos, i.e. if apples offered out of season they won't touch them because obviously they aren't really apples because those aren't ripe yet... secondly, supermarket apples will be covered in a layer of carnuba wax which may prevent them smelling right... thirdly.. what kind of apples were offered? I would be thinking that varieties such as granny smith, red delicious and golden delicious might seem a bit unnatural, and would try to use apples that look more natural, maybe empire, discovery, cox's orange pippin etc. Though if a variety such as macintosh is grown in the area, then you'd think it would be familiar.

[Guest UPs]

One of the reason that I quit using bait when deer hunting is the target animal will always be on high alert when eating from a pile versus foraging. Predators don't seem to be as skittish, but they still are ready to bolt like prey animals. I think the bait thing has been tried enough that ambushing has a better chance of success, IMO.

[Guest DWA]

Gotta say, bipto:  getting closer.

 

One reason we can kill everything (that we know about, haha) but sasquatch is uncounted generations of experience in doing that.  Today's bow and gun hunters are doing what the first people on this continent did, with certain variations.

 

The experience kinda disappears when no one takes it seriously however.  So:   time to grow your own.

 

(Anyone who thinks a twig diverting a head shot is a little bit hard to believe hasn't read much about the kouprey.  And that's a dang cow.)

[Guest]

(Anyone who thinks a twig diverting a head shot is a little bit hard to believe hasn't read much about the kouprey.  And that's a dang cow.)

That's probably what those flat noses are about, if you have something stroke the side of a bullet it's more apt to send it off course then if it went straight through it dead on. So, trying to transfer forces such that any slight obstacle's resistance slows the bullet down as a whole slightly. rather than deflecting it.

[Guest]

Yeah because an unknown animal is incapable of being shot if in plain sight.

[Guest Rex]

Haven't read this whole thread. But If it were me, i would build an AR-15 in .50 beowulf.

 

Now they do have their issues out of the box ..  mainly you have to relieve the extractor to make it more than a single shot ( I have had to do this to three of them thus far) to get them to cycle and feed.

 

Have guys here who use them for hogs, and my DOM uses one for hogs out of our helicopter.

 

The round is more than adequate for shots out to about 150 yards and I believe it would carry enough energy to plant one of your targets.

 

Personally i would prob contact  AA and have them make me a custom barrel in the 20-24 inch range and have it ported  or fitted with a proper muzzle brake.

 

The ballistics at 150 yards are:  1,390 fps- 1,717 ft/lbs and a 3.7 inch drop from POA zeroed for 100.

 

 Now the reasoning is that the platform and muzzle brake will soak up much of the recoil developed by the cartridge and this will aid in not killing the thermal circuitry as well as follow up shots being faster.

 

 i would use the 400 grain bullets and might even do some hand loading to warm them up a bit.

 

I am not thinking there is anything out there that is going to walk away from a solid COM hit with that round.

 

The whole rig is an expensive proposition but if I were doing what you are that is the direction i would go.

 

lights aren't going to help, any IR illumination i am convinced they can see..  thermal is your only option for a rifle sight.. and keep your shots inside 150 yards.. if it is further than that.. don't take the shot.

 

while 45-70 guide guns and the like are nice.. they are light and have no means to absorb any of the recoil.

 

The 458 SOCOM would be another choice.. but I personally do not care for the rebated rim and the implications on extraction when you are going to need it the most.

 

I would NOT use a hollow point and would stick with a JSP. Penetration through thick, fur, hide, bone and tissue is what you are after.

 

The next option would IMO be a 12 ga. loaded with slugs..and a rifled slug barrel. something in a semi auto.

 

I remain unconvinced that a 7.62x39 154 sp would not do the job... I have laid down 800 pound hogs with them from 200 yards, through the plates.  But I would opt for mass to counter mass.

 

besides, what better round for Grendel?  LOL