kitakaze Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 @kitakaze, Thank you. At first I thoiught the ratio between the ulna/radius and the humerus was a bit off for Orangutan but ICBW. Whatever the creature was it appears to be fairly small. No more than perhaps three feet in height? I appreciate you helping out with updates. And a good reminder on the destruction at zoos and keepers allowing freedoms for survival. A feral orangutan in Florida would be a very rare find. A juvenile is possible. What we know for a fact is that Florida has a very high number of feral rhesus monkeys. I was looking most closely at the radius and ulna, along with the length when I excluded both chimps and gorillas, which have a very pronounced radius and ulna, which have a higher degree of separation. Todd has told me he wants to most closely examine the metacarpals and humerus to make his determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hello kitakaze, Thanks and this, what I posted: " And a good reminder on the destruction at zoos and keepers allowing freedoms for survival." Was a gross error. Zookeepers do not release animals to the public during hurricanes. If anything they babysit them, feed them and make sure their shelters are secure. Brave folks there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The situation thus far is that while I have not seen a specific location for Florida, Florida has a high number of feral rhesus monkeys... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2418549/Tarzan-monkeys-Florida-number-1-000-introduced-74-years-ago.html ...while the only thing even coming close to evidence for feral orangutans would be the Myakka "skunkape" photos... These are the arm bones along with those of a rhesus monkey... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Definitely better images which Brown provided to Prof. Disotell will be needed to make any kind of determination. The long arm bones look consistent with a rhesus monkey, but looking at the metacarpals, the first digit seems to show the proper separation between first and second metacarpal, but the other three fore digits do not seem to show the separation. Hopefully Todd can make a clear determination, and if necessary actually test the bones themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Hello kitakaze, There are interesting correlations there and I cannot even come close to claiming expertise. I can however for the sake of discussion lend my first impressions if I may. The eye set of the supposed Myakka skunk ape look wider than Orangutan's. That may be due to soley eye shine however simian great apes and Humans do not have eyeshine so where does that leave things? In regards to the arm bones minor morphology may be slightly different individual to individual but larger morphological variation remains distinctive species to species. Otherwise Dr. Disotell's decision may be easily questioned. The example set of bones does look to be wider in separation with curvature seemingly in opposite directions. This is only a surface observation based on a visual comparison. I have little if any experience in this sort of analysis. Like you I have to defer to an expert in the field. It would be interesting if age could be determined not only of the creature once identified or any forensic analyses suggesting time of death as in weeks, months, or years. Edited September 2, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Just curious, how many folks feel this is evidence for bigfoot? If it turns out to NOT be evidence of bigfoot how will that color your view of Stacy Brown Jr's credibility and any evidence he brings forward? As long as it is some kind of primate arm and not bear, etc I am ok with it in regards to Stacy's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Hello 1980squatch, I completely agree. He called it as being a 'non-Human primate"- he did not claim it was a skunk ape. I think he's experienced enough to not be like the person whose name we don't mention. I find him to be an objective investigator and even with a bias toward BF existence he has a healthy skepticism when it comes to evidence. Antone with any smarts in this field knows the scrutiny of the community can be severe. Edited September 2, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitakaze Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 As long as it is some kind of primate arm and not bear, etc I am ok with it in regards to Stacy's reputation. I don't think Brown was wrong in referring to the bones as primate. It's not a bear. The only bear it could be in Florida is the Florida black bear. These are the metacarpals of a black bear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The finger bones are quite long in comparison to the rest of the arm also. DNA will be the ultimate determinant of course. That's the first thing I noticed as well - how long those metacarpals are. They're rather extraordinary, almost as long as the forearm. Very different proportions than those of the orangutan and rhesus monkey model photos posted by kitakaze. A fascinating find! I too would love to see some high-res photos. I'll be eagerly awaiting the experts' analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBeaton Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The relative length of the metacarpals...is interestin'...first thing that came to mind was feline or canine. I'm sure it will be easy enough to determine what species when it gets examined. A waitin' game I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Even if a complete dead end it is nice to see something concrete that can be followed up on to a conclusion. That photo is no blobsquatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 There is an important aspect of this we are not shown in this photo...the other side of the "hand" Given that a lot of the connective tissue is still present, there might be the possibility the nailbed/nail/claw is still there. Have we seen any other shots adide from this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Don't let's get any too many hopes up, here. We've been through similar promised eureka moments, time after time. Hoping for the best, but won't lose a wink of sleep when it all comes crashing down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 If this soup bone had been collected in, say, Idaho, instead of FL, I'd be much more intrigued. And I am intrigued, to some extent, but I keep expectations low, low, low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branco Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Why in the world did they not send this photo to the the Department of Anthropology at the U of T in Austin? They are experts at identifying about any primate by ANY single bone from its skeleton. Anyone can compare any skeleton of a primate to another, Go to: http://eskeletons.org/ and have fun. Edited September 3, 2014 by Branco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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