hiflier Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, norseman said: I wasn’t there. But it’s super disappointing to say the least. I’ve kept my eyes open for similar nests. We have huckleberry bushes as well. Indeed, very disappointing. I wasn't there either, but the evidence found by who was there shows only one "primate." and that that one primate, without a doubt was Human. But what was never told to us was that if there WAS another "primate" hidden in that degraded Human DNA? That it would ALSO have to be Human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Huntster said: except in Washington, research is ongoing and dna analysis has gotten better. Apparently that "better" DNA analysis, where BF is concerned, has created some better cover up. The best way to cover up anything these days lies in my second signature quote below. Meldrum and Disotell both said Human DNA too degraded to show a novel primate. But they never went on to say that ANY novel primate, no matter what it may have turned out to be, couldn't have been anything other than a Human one. The most important point anyone could possibly take away from this thread is that degraded Human DNA, no matter where it was collected would NEVER show a "primate" other than one belonging to genus Homo. This kind of knowledge is just as good applied to past test results as is is applied to current or future test results. And I really hope the BF community as a whole takes this to heart. .....you're welcome. Edited May 24, 2023 by hiflier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, hiflier said: ........The best way to cover up anything these days lies in my second signature quote below......... QFT! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 This thread is done. I made the case. And the case stands as a strong, irrefutable, and logical argument- based on scientific fact- for stating the truth: Only something Human, of whatever description, built the nests. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 43 minutes ago, hiflier said: This thread is done. I made the case. And the case stands as a strong, irrefutable, and logical argument- based on scientific fact- for stating the truth: Only something Human, of whatever description, built the nests. End of story. Mick Dodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, norseman said: Mick Dodge Great, tell Dr. Disotell and Dr. Meldrum, they'll be thrilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted May 25, 2023 BFF Patron Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) On 5/22/2023 at 6:31 PM, hiflier said: Why are you doing this, Norseman. You've done just about everything you can to ignore or dump on the facts that I've pointed out. You conveniently disregard the point of putting all the details of the nest site into one basket but instead take pot shots at the individual pieces. What is it about degraded Human DNA that you don't understand? Maybe the fact that even severely degraded Human DNA will still show Human and nothing but Human? And that the nest samples did the same thing because that the nature of DNA? Just what is it you're trying to do here? Make me repeat the same things constantly just so you can pick a different target to poke holes in? Because keeping a discussion going around in circles does have the effect of halting its progress on points of fact. Or are you so intent on steering things in order to favor your macho, great white hunter/martyr shoot-to-kill agenda? You have refused to see a better way and have made efforts for years to shoot down this technology for discovery in any way you can. Just what is your game here because no one else but you takes such pains to wreck any dialogue about DNA that threatens to show that it can be, and has been successful, in finding previously unknown animals. Even your dialogue back when I presented the proof of concept studies using air DNA was nothing but crap debate. I use facts and science to prove my case and what do you do? tell stories about nest building as a kid. And one of your last comments here was pure junk. Something to the effect about there being no DNA at the site. How's you come up with that little lie? I suggest you stay with facts and stop twisting everything to make it all look bad. You knows what been said and everyone also sees what you've been saying against it at every turn. People see your methods and attempts at debasing the points of discussion. So again, what are you hoping to accomplish here? I say hoping because you have failed in every effort and at every turn. Cool your jets @hiflier even Cliff Barrackman admitted to laying in the nests and it was my understanding before DNA samples were collected and this didn't even include those investigators picking thru the morass without gloves beforehand so the issue is who did the control DNA of all the investigators and how that was plotted out in comparison to what came later as degraded. Where is the detailed analysis and chain of custody of all of that then start a cat fight?! Edited May 25, 2023 by bipedalist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, bipedalist said: Cool your jets @hiflier even Cliff Barrackman admitted to laying in the nests and it was my understanding before DNA samples were collected and this didn't even include those investigators picking thru the morass without gloves beforehand so the issue is who did the control DNA of all the investigators and how that was plotted out in comparison to what came later as degraded. Where is the detailed analysis and chain of custody of all of that then start a cat fight?! Interesting…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 51 minutes ago, bipedalist said: Cool your jets @hiflier even Cliff Barrackman admitted to laying in the nests and it was my understanding before DNA samples were collected and this didn't even include those investigators picking thru the morass without gloves beforehand so the issue is who did the control DNA of all the investigators and how that was plotted out in comparison to what came later as degraded. Where is the detailed analysis and chain of custody of all of that then start a cat fight?! Whoa, whoa, whoa, bipedalist, Are you saying that Dr. Meldrum took soil samples from under a nest AFTER Barackman had laid in it? You know what? I really get tired of people state things just to try and undermine a truth. They may have the best of intentions but their vision of the complete picture is narrow. So they say things without considering ALL the facts. For instance, I REALLY doubt that Barackman's DNA, if it really made it down through to the soil, had been there long enough to degrade. I also doubt that Barackman broke off all those huckleberry bushes. And that's just for starters. But even none of THAT really matters. There was no other primate DNA taken from the site but Human DNA, which was degraded. So you're suggesting that Barackman and Ellis's daughter laid in the nests, and then Meldrum showed up and dug it up out of soil under the nests? You have a chance to clarify that if you wish. I suggest you take it. And if not, take it up with Barackman because Derek Randles claimed that everyone was careful because they had learned from past mistakes how to not screw things up by contaminating the scene. Talk to him about that, okay? You can probably catch up with him at his museum. The one with the replicated nest inside it somewhere. In the mean time what is accurate for the facts is this: The nests were fresh, greenery still on them. Huckleberry bushes, about 30x40 sq yards of them, were broken off, not cut. Soil samples were taken by Meldrum and tested by Disotell. Degraded Human DNA was found. Even in a degraded state, the only chanc for anything "novel" would also have to be Human in origin. No other primate genus was discovered in the samples. Result? Only Humans were at the site. So slow down, take a breath, look at ALL the facts and details together, and then consider cooling your own jets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 46 minutes ago, norseman said: Interesting…. No it isn't. It's forgetting to look at all the facts surrounding the discovery, or just plain ignoring them to try and pinpoint a flaw in the argument. Hint: There isn't one. So a simple reminder for anyone is to make sure every tiny detail of the discovery gets included in the picture before discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, karo said: .....unfortunately no one realized that samples should be fIRST taken..... Barackman is a member, have him come here and tell it to us himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 47 minutes ago, karo said: So, in regards to NEST/DNA discussions, let's please just lock this thread up and move on as it's obviously a mOOT POINT In your dreams. You don't wish to be a part of the discussion then, hey, move on. Really doesn't matter anyhow, the issue has been settled. As you say, only Humans were at the site. But there were Humans there (the ones who built the nests and left their DNA) long before Barackman and the Olympic Project team (fresh DNA) got there...timber cruiser included. Because the DNA was degraded, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted May 25, 2023 BFF Patron Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) Whoa is for horses @hiflier, Kix are for kids and any member can discuss but only those loaded for bear before checking the load in their pants seem to have short tempers with member discussions! Sure have @Cliff Barackman check in, if I'm wrong at least I can fault my own recall of the situation and stand corrected, can you do the same? Oh, forgot the all sciency part, where are the control DNA samples from project/examiner participants? Edited May 25, 2023 by bipedalist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 hours ago, norseman said: Mick Dodge Got proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, karo said: .......before there were any dna samples collected, several people, including mr. barackman layed in the nest. Cliff said that unfortunately no one realized that samples should be fIRST taken........... Now that right there is a masterpiece of scientific inquiry. The future looks promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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