Catch and Release?

[norseman]

1 minute ago, hiflier said:

 

WHOA, BABY! That's exactly my point and the kind of logical thinking I really like to see

 

No it’s not. That’s not your point at all. Go back and reread your own statement.🤨

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, xspider1 said:

Ok, hiflier, so you're saying that a captured Bigfoot could never hold a candle to the alleged and definitive Bigfoot DNA sample that this forum is, what, hiding?? 

 

Extremely obtuse. Never said that. I said science can go get the body(s) if that's what they want once we have the creature's physical evidence. Don't need a body to have physical evidence. And no one's hiding anything. It been posted in plain view 50 times. Well maybe not 50, but a LOT. People know where it is let someone else post it. It'll be a nice change.

 

8 minutes ago, norseman said:

No it’s not. That’s not your point at all. Go back and reread your own statement.🤨

 

I was being facetious.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by hiflier

[norseman]

12 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Ah, there it is. It was a false statement that needed correcting. I corrected it, took my usual lumps for doing so, of course. But it needed doing and someone had to do the dirty deed, right? Bottom line, I was wrong, I imagined it. I mean DNA did get mentioned, but not for the purpose one have though would be at all useful. Too bad

 

As far as catch and release goes, ancient Humans, and some not so ancient would stampede a herd of bison toward a ravine and the lead animals in the herd would stop at the edge. But the rest of the herd behind could see the ravine and kept charging ahead forcing the lead animals into the ravine and onto the rocks and their deaths. Result? plenty of meat and hides just for the taking. So all one needs to do is stampede a group of Sasquatches toward the pit and the ones in the back of the group, not seeing the pit, would keep going shoving the lead Sasquatch(s) into the pit. Gas 'em, and do whatever one thinks needs doing. But to study them for a few days? The study won't be the least bit valid because a pit isn't the creature's natural habitat.

 

So catch and release? Meh. Proving them real would be infinitely easier, and even THAT has proven to be all but nearly impossible. There, thread is back on track. Trap 'em, gas 'em. watch 'em for a few days, and move on. A bit barberic but hey, we're Human so what does anyone expect. Maybe if we're really lucky one might even break it's leg in the fall and would have to be put down. Perfect outcome for science.

 

What is false is your misinterpretation. So a scientist has found some interesting data within a DNA study. OK. That’s not a POSITIVE DNA sample for a novel primate in North America….. Really?!

 

Science wants testable and repeatable results. So you know what that means right? That probably means a body or a part of one and a battery of fresh positive DNA samples taken by scientists directly off the creature. But hey! Prove me wrong!
 

And as far as I am concerned? Xspider has a better chance of a Bigfoot falling into a pit fall trap than ANYONE making any sense of Ketchum’s DNA dumpster fire……aka study.
 

3 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Extremely obtuse. Never said that. I said science can go get the body(s) if that's waht they want once we have the creature's physical evidence. Don't need a body to have physical evidence.

 

 

I was being facetious.

 

Just a heads up? We are on an Internet forum. 

[hiflier]

9 minutes ago, norseman said:

Science wants testable and repeatable results. So you know what that means right?

 

You're not making sense. Science isn't about to go out and get those repeatable results and you know it. Had they have done so we wouldn't be having these conversations, and I really doubt a pit-digging discussion would've seen the light of day. But it doesn't mean we don't have the evidence already. Because we do. Don't wanna look at it or accept it? Then don't. But don't go around offhandedly saying there's no DNA when there is. See ya.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by hiflier

[norseman]

1 minute ago, hiflier said:

 

You're not making sense. Science isn't about to go out and get those repeatable results and you know it. Had they have done so we wouldn't be having these conversations, and I really doubt a pit-digging discussion would've seen the light of day. And here I thought you were drawing logical conclusions.

Which is why random DNA is a dead end for recognition. 
 

We need the animal or a chunk of it. Something that represents thousands of DNA samples. They can destroy a sample, sequence it and say “that’s impossible! A North American primate living here! Nah! Give us another sample! Oh….that’s a black bear…..just what we thought.”

 

You throw a hand on a table or a skull something tangible? Their glasses are gonna slide down their smug faces and they will sit up and take notice.

 

I don’t give a crap if I bounce a bullet through it’s brain, hit it with my Peterbilt or find one dead in the forest…..Or Xspider draws a gallon of blood from a sleeping Bigfoot and kisses it on the cheek. I JUST DO NOT CARE. The more fishing lines in the water the better.

 

What eDNA could do for us? Is give us a place to go look. It could be a research tool, just like a thermal drone. But I do not believe that it’s gonna make any peer reviewed journal say “Eureka”!

[xspider1]

43 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Gas 'em, and do whatever one thinks needs doing. But to study them for a few days? The study won't be the least bit valid because a pit isn't the creature's natural habitat.

 

No offense but, what!?  Then you said:  "Maybe if we're really lucky one might even break it's leg in the fall and would have to be put down. Perfect outcome for science."  So, a captured Bigfoot is only valid to Science if it is put down?  hogwash  You still don't seem to get it.  DNA is not working without a type specimen that can be examined.  Being in an un-natural habitat would not prevent classification.

"Or Xspider draws a gallon of blood from a sleeping Bigfoot and kisses it on the cheek." - norseman
Probably wouldn't need an entire gallon, norse, and very doubtful that I would kiss one, unless we were friends.    I really don't even know if capture is the right thing to do.  I can totally relate to those who say: observe, but do not engage.  The Catch and Release subject is really just a way to convince those in the assault and kill camp that there are better roads.  
 

 

  

[hiflier]

8 hours ago, xspider1 said:

"Maybe if we're really lucky one might even break it's leg in the fall and would have to be put down. Perfect outcome for science."  So, a captured Bigfoot is only valid to Science if it is put down?  hogwash

 

Again, I was being facetious to Norseman's, "I want to shoot one."

 

8 hours ago, xspider1 said:

DNA is not working without a type specimen that can be examined.

 

Why aren't people getting this? I don't think people will EVER get it from what I can see. We HAVE the DNA. AND the type specimens....of BOTH sexes. The type specimen is called a Human. It has had different species of it's genus off and on for millions of years. And we know because of its ancient DNA. So it's modern Humans vs. Ancient Humans. Following that? Okay, now science, for example, using DNA has found, a new species of dolphin. How do they know? Because as you said, xspider1, a type specimen needs to exists and it does- a dolphin, which science was able to compare the new dolphin's DNA with the old. And BINGO! New species.

 

Transfer that concept to Sasquatch and....well....do I need to go further? Because every study has shown species of Human. Human IS the type specimen that everyone's been looking for. Sasquatch is a species, or sub species if you will. It will not show up as a different genus. Period. There is nothing hard about this no matter how hard folks work to keep it out of most discussions.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by hiflier

[norseman]

8 hours ago, xspider1 said:

 

No offense but, what!?  Then you said:  "Maybe if we're really lucky one might even break it's leg in the fall and would have to be put down. Perfect outcome for science."  So, a captured Bigfoot is only valid to Science if it is put down?  hogwash  You still don't seem to get it.  DNA is not working without a type specimen that can be examined.  Being in an un-natural habitat would not prevent classification.

"Or Xspider draws a gallon of blood from a sleeping Bigfoot and kisses it on the cheek." - norseman
Probably wouldn't need an entire gallon, norse, and very doubtful that I would kiss one, unless we were friends.    I really don't even know if capture is the right thing to do.  I can totally relate to those who say: observe, but do not engage.  The Catch and Release subject is really just a way to convince those in the assault and kill camp that there are better roads.  
 

 

  

You’re just as much of animal as I am because Bigfoot might trip and hurt himself falling into your hole…. See how that works? All we want is classification of the species. And people will look down their noses at us for it.

 

Thats OK I am perfectly fine with being a Monster to get the job done. Get it done and then we can focus on PRESERVING the species. But only after CLASSIFICATION!👍

 

So yah…. I am not convinced.

[norseman]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Again, I was being facetious to Norseman's, "I want to shoot one."

 

 

Why aren't people getting this? I don't think people will EVER get it from what I can see. We HAVE the DNA. AND the type specimens....of BOTH sexes. The type specimen is called a Human. It has had different species of it's genus off and on for millions of years. And we know because of its ancient DNA. So it's modern Humans vs. Ancient Humans. Following that? Okay, now science, for example, using DNA has found, a new species of dolphin. How do they know? Because as you said, xspider1, a type specimen needs to exists and it does- a dolphin, which science was able to compare the new dolphin's DNA with the old. And BINGO! New species.

 

Transfer that concept to Sasquatch and....well....do I need to go further? Because every study has shown species of Human. Human IS the type specimen that everyone's been looking for. Sasquatch is a species, or sub species if you will. It will not show up as a different genus. Period. There is nothing hard about this no matter how hard folks work to keep it out of most discussions.

 

 

[NorCalWitness]

11 hours ago, norseman said:

Why would we dig a pit AFTER Bigfoot has been proven to exist…..🧐

 

I think what is poor is when we worry about silly things like public perception WHEN the debate is about catching pixies and gnomes. We are already ALL CRAZY is the public’s eye!!! Get over it!

 

I wanna shoot one.

You wanna find that one lucky soil sample.

And Xspider wants to dig a humane pit fall and capture one.

 

Great! They all lead to the same place! Species classification and two type specimens in a drawer in the basement of a University.🤷‍♂️

 

The rest is just drama and egos and fertilizer! 

why do you want to shoot one? 

[MIB]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

We HAVE the DNA.

 

Maybe we do, maybe we don't.    We do not have PROOF that it is the DNA.   We have claim and conjecture.    No more proven than existence of bigfoot.  

[xspider1]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

You’re just as much of animal as I am…

 

Nope.  You are willing to kill 2, perhaps even a breeding pair, to get them classified.  I am willing to kill 0, see the difference?

 

hiflier says we have the DNA and almost 8 billion type specimens already so, I guess were just waiting on the paper-work..

[hiflier]

46 minutes ago, MIB said:

We do not have PROOF that it is the DNA.

 

If you don't trust the science that produces the data then toss it if you like. But the long running complaint in the community is that Sasquatch DNA is so close to Human that geneticists ignore it thinking Human contamination. Well, sometimes it isn't Human contamination. But when we GET DNA that is close to Human with mutations? STILL no one will trust it. The issue isn't the DNA, it's that the community rejects it even when it's in-your-face obvious. If one cannot plug DNA results into the picture along with the other pieces of the puzzle, to see that whole picture, then the community will continue to fail science and visa versa.

 

I have baggies with dirt from footprints. Just waiting for an okay from a study group for when (and if) they move into that kind of testing.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by hiflier

[norseman]

3 hours ago, xspider1 said:

 

Nope.  You are willing to kill 2, perhaps even a breeding pair, to get them classified.  I am willing to kill 0, see the difference?

 

hiflier says we have the DNA and almost 8 billion type specimens already so, I guess were just waiting on the paper-work..

I do (but could care less) but Hiflier does not. This is all just gaslighting….

 

If there is a conspiracy? All the more reason to shoot one and rub their noses in it! 

[MIB]

^^^^ I wouldn't worry too much about what "the community" does or doesn't accept.  The needle for acceptance is defined by what mainstream science accepts or doesn't accept.  The only exceptions would seem to be the ego's need for validation OR use of "the community" as a sort of megaphone to jar mainstream science into paying attention.   (Note: the latter hasn't been very successful so far.)

 

You mention ..

 

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

But when we GET DNA that is close to Human with mutations?

 

Where is this written up?   What lab did the work, identified the mutations, labeled them non-human, and so on?  And has it been independently replicated?   Who sponsored the work in each case?   

 

MIB