Guest BFSleuth Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I just can't buy that a creature with no command of fire/tools/weapons would have the presense of mind to rationalize "Hey, that backhoe was over there digging a big hole in the ground, then they covered it with native ground cover. We better steer clear of there because that looks pretty dangerous" I haven't heard of one building a house yet, or storing up food for the Winter. Either of those would make me believe they have a strong enough momory to carry over year to year, short of that, they will eventually forget about the hole. It is said that necessity is the mother of invention. Why would BF need to build fire, make tools, make a house, or make weapons? Applying human needs to BF doesn't necessarily compute. Thinking that because humans feel a need to make all these things that therefore any intelligent life form must always follow our path leads to hubrus. This is what I think leads so many in the world of bigfootery to greatly underestimate their intelligence. Not all highly intelligent life forms are so frail as humans.
Guest Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 The OP said he "could predict where they would appear within 400 yds". Soooo, dig a few around there.
salubrious Posted June 1, 2012 Moderator Posted June 1, 2012 How can you say "They will make a note to avoid it"? I would argue they will be just as likely to fall into it out of curiosity. I just can't buy that a creature with no command of fire/tools/weapons would have the presense of mind to rationalize "Hey, that backhoe was over there digging a big hole in the ground, then they covered it with native ground cover. We better steer clear of there because that looks pretty dangerous" I haven't heard of one building a house yet, or storing up food for the Winter. Either of those would make me believe they have a strong enough momory to carry over year to year, short of that, they will eventually forget about the hole. I think a lot of people have a similar attitude- and I think this demonstrates in spades why we've not 'found' BF - yet.
Rockape Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 For this reason, I would say a deep Earth trap would provide the best chance for capture. I would caution against that unless it is kept under 24/7 observation as a hole dug, even on private property, could open you up for charges and or liability lawsuits should someone, especially a minor, happens along and falls in it.
ShadowBorn Posted June 1, 2012 Moderator Posted June 1, 2012 If you have the resources to take on this task the best time to tranq one of these creatures would be at night. Using two thermo's one for the tranq gun and one for scoping to see what you would be dealing with. From there it would be a ****** and grab and be gone using the darknest to your advantage. The thermo's you would be able to judge the creatures size and know how many darts you would need to put it down. Not sure why it has not been done yet but should have along time ago , Just my opionion.
norseman Posted June 2, 2012 Admin Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) I've been researching the big guy for nearly 25 years. I came to this forum to get some real help but haven't received any yet. So I will make an appeal to all the professionals here... I'm not going into the specifics of how I know what I know for obvious reasons, but I have discovered WHERE and WHEN one or more Bigfoot will be...within a 400 yards radius. If everyone is serious about capturing one alive, where is the plan? I've tried getting help on this forum, but it appears that no one has a viable capture plan for anything over 30 yards. Obviously, if I wanted to shoot to kill this animal, I wouldn't be here. But I'm finding the lack of answers discouraging.... Here is my friendly advice........ Obviously the quickest way of capturing one is with a bullet, but you seem dead set against that. And yet capturing a large animal that could potentially rip off your arms and beat you to death with them is still a very very risky proposition. IF you do not have the wherewithal because of your beliefs to do harm to this creature then leave it alone. Chances are very very good that a live capture could be botched and your going to have to kill the animal anyhow in self defense. Secondly a 400 yard radius is an absolutely immense amount of terrain concerning "less than lethal" means. And I'm probably guessing correctly that this terrain is not an open field, but instead heavily timbered. Your talking about roughly four acres of ground to stake out and cover. http://shop.pneudart...odel-196-rifle/ The dart gun above has a 100 yard range, but I bet my bottom dollar that you would want to be about half that distance to be effective. If you do not have a finite point that is going to draw an animal in, (bait station, pheromone chip, etc) then your going to have to patrol that 4 acres with dart teams. Those dart team members would have to be very comfortable with operating in the bush, probably at night AND be loaded for bear in the event that the situation became lethal. They are going to need to observe sound, scent and light discipline, be well camouflaged, but also have the ability to communicate with each other. The other potential danger here is that teams could bump into each other in the dark and either dart or shoot each other in the confusion and mayhem. It would be wise to assign patrol areas within the zone that ONLY one team was allowed into at a time. Serious bling like night vision and thermal scopes would be very useful if it's within the budget. Otherwise allow eyes to become adjusted to the dark and use only red lens lights while staying under cover (like a rain poncho) to read maps, use the radio, etc. But ultimately as I stressed earlier, you MUST be prepared to use lethal force in a endeavor like this.......this is a aggressive, intrusive act that may very well be returned to you in kind. Lastly, I don't think anyone has a chance in hell with helicopters, nets, vehicles and the like.........the trap would be sniffed out long before you where ever able to spring it. Your going to have to out Squatch the Squatch........and it can be done. It is said that necessity is the mother of invention. Why would BF need to build fire, make tools, make a house, or make weapons? Applying human needs to BF doesn't necessarily compute. Thinking that because humans feel a need to make all these things that therefore any intelligent life form must always follow our path leads to hubrus. This is what I think leads so many in the world of bigfootery to greatly underestimate their intelligence. Not all highly intelligent life forms are so frail as humans. Humans are not even remotely frail. We traditionally have been living in the most extreme climates on the planet.........from the arctic to the sahara. And on the subject of intelligence, even Orangs build rain shelters, and Chimps use sticks to fish for ants, etc. So in other great apes where we can observe them bending nature to better serve them even in limited ways, we still can measure their intelligence levels in captivity. It would be more odd from a anthropological standpoint, that if a Squatch is somewhere in the Homo lineage that he does NOT create fire or hand tools than if he did. Other species of Homo before us utilized such technology, so it's simply not a modern human interpretation of intelligence. Which puts a Squatch in my opinion somewhere in the great ape category although he shares bipedalism with us. Setting aside that a person should try to obviously first obtain the best footage possible from a situation and staying on topic to the ideas for temporary capture, here is another plan for everyone to dissect: Position all team members (4-6 people) during the day in complete camouflage (de-scent, ghillie suit, the works) in an area where and when BF will cross to within 50-100 yards. To temporarily immobilize a BF, fire one or more XREP taser shells from a smooth-bore 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun with Gen 3 scope. See my argument below on the XREP vs. Tranquilizer Darts. As BF is incapacitated by the XREP, team members run up with several net guns (see link below) to completely cover BF At close range, a large animal tranquilizer is shot with an air pistol to knock-out the creature. Using spot-lights, flares, flash-bang gun shells, and high-powered rifles (just in case), team members encircle the 'incapacitation team' during the process ATV vehicle is used to extract BF if truck can't be brought close to the creature. Load BF, strap down with ratchet straps in truck. After study and verification, release back in the area at night as soon as possible. XREP Law-Enforcement Taser Shotgun shells. Here is why I think these little guys are the best incapacitating choice for BF in man's current technological arsenal. Set aside wimpy stun guns. Yes, Tasers can get a wider contact areas but still not enough- and proximity to subject is way too close (15-25 feet) Pronged Tranquilizers with long-range transmitters can be easily pulled out by a creature with opposable thumbs. When the XREP is fired (see link), it hits the subject first with a stunning, blunt force impact. However, what makes this AMAZING is that a strand of wire a few feet in length trails the device, and the natural instinct for people (and BF) is to pull out the device. As soon as the subject touches the wire, the LARGEST contact surface area possible is made (thus greatly increasing the chances of incapacitation)- from the hand, up the arms, shoulders, torso, head- to where ever the device made impact. IMMEDIATE incapacitation. Unlike even the best tranquilizers. Allows for enough time to bring in further immobilizing devices like nets, etc. XREP info: http://www.thefirear...se-and-pricing/ Net guns: http://www.wildlifec...om/net_gun.html What does everyone think? In the link you provided it says: Once the spikes make contact with the target, the body breaks away and very (very!) sharp needles are deployed. The Taser system requires two points of contact to adequacy shock a human being. The frontal spikes provide one point of contact and the needles provide another. This system is designed as a less than lethal LE application, and not for incapacitating a large animal. Edited June 2, 2012 by norseman
Guest Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Having gone through several iterations of the Marine Corps Non Lethal Weapons course which is required prior to every deployment I would say keeping it as simple as possible is paramount. IF you can find them and IF you can get close CS gas and net guns would stop it from getting away. Immobilization and transport would be the kicker, barring any reprisals from other Sasquatch.
Guest Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 T- From your experience, tell me more why you think a BF can be immobilized with CS gas? Why will it not run away? Especially since it is not human & might not freak out the way we do with exposure. What do you think of the XREP? How much CS are you talking about? A stealthy slow release or actually shooting cannisters at it? There are 12 gauge non-lethal batons with CS gas inside that are available... what about firing a few of those?
Guest Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) It takes very very little CS to invoke a powerful response in most people. Soldiers go through these courses so that they can condition themselves to still be able to perform in some capacity if they are ever hit with it combat. The hope would be that you could disorient the Sasquatch enough to have necessary times to net it. As stated XREP is made for people. XREP is designed to fill a niche between projectiles like Bean Bags and the Air Foil (Who's inventor I actually met at the American Legion once) and riot shells that sometimes do kill people when used improperly. Many non-lethal weapons are still quite lethal when used under duress and outside of their intended purpose. All said and done, if you can get close enough to deploy any of these devices within their manufacturers parameters you should be close enough some very good video and audio. Media provocative enough to draw institutions or individuals with means and connections to become involved. Hoaxing has helped Sasquatch in ways we can't fathom. I agree that convincing footage is hard to fake and hard to get, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying if we are of a mind to see the species recognized. Makes me wonder, a Sasquatch slinging snot from a CS hit on HD video would be pretty darn convincing, even if you can take them out of their element for a few moments, neutralize their skill-set and survival tools long enough to get clean, crisp footage that even the most technically die-hard skeptic would have to say...."Okay let's think about this" Edited June 2, 2012 by Tautriadelta
Guest MikeG Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Is it legal to go around firing any old thing you like at wildlife? Mike
Guest Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Shooting non-lethals at animals would be the same as firing at a bear to keep out of your trash...perfectly legal. And for an animal that doesn't legally exist, it's even more so.
Guest BFSleuth Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 There may be laws against harassment of wildlife. It would be good to check. You may also need a collection permit for taking scientific specimens.
Guest ajciani Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Shooting canisters of CS would definitely land you a fine, if caught. CS gas is not available without a special license, nor are most any deployable gasses which are capable of incapacitation. You might be able to get the stuff black market though, or buy it in a foreign country and smuggle it in. Also, there is nothing to say a BF will react the same way we do. I once watched my cat lick habenero juice and scraps off a cutting board. I shouldn't say watch though, because I chased him off as soon as I saw him, but he was licking for about 3 seconds. He jumped down and trotted away, and after about 10 seconds, his face was a mass of drool, and he was trailing a puddle. The cat otherwise acted normally. A human would have been coughing, gagging, crying, anything but acting normal. The cat went back for a second licking session after about 2 minutes. There is absolutely nothing to say that a BF will react the same ways as a human. Concerning animal tranquilizers, there is nothing to say that a BF will act like an animal either. Many animal tranquilizers will only have psychotropic effects on humans. How about this. Instead of trying to capture, go for a face-to-face encounter. Carry a camera with flash (a compact camera). Walk around in the area at night, without a flash light (use it initially to draw them in). There are lots of encounter stories concerning BF revealing themselves in the dark. Whip that camera out, take one or two pictures with flash, turn on your flashlight, and the BF will probably do what BF always does when there is someone with a flashlight: run away. You might burn some trust points, and maybe earn some dislike points, but what will you care; you will have the photos of the century. Just don't mind the comments of the scoftics.
Guest Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) As stated XREP is made for people. XREP is designed to fill a niche between projectiles like Bean Bags and the Air Foil (Who's inventor I actually met at the American Legion once) and riot shells that sometimes do kill people when used improperly. Many non-lethal weapons are still quite lethal when used under duress and outside of their intended purpose. All said and done, if you can get close enough to deploy any of these devices within their manufacturers parameters you should be close enough some very good video and audio. Media provocative enough to draw institutions or individuals with means and connections to become involved. Hoaxing has helped Sasquatch in ways we can't fathom. I agree that convincing footage is hard to fake and hard to get, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying if we are of a mind to see the species recognized. Makes me wonder, a Sasquatch slinging snot from a CS hit on HD video would be pretty darn convincing, even if you can take them out of their element for a few moments, neutralize their skill-set and survival tools long enough to get clean, crisp footage that even the most technically die-hard skeptic would have to say...."Okay let's think about this" Interesting. Stun it long enough to get pics. Best guess estimate length of disorientation with CS? Yes, XREP is for people, but who is to say they aren't our closest relatives, right? It certainly immobilizes people shot from a good distance. Law enforcement can purchase CS shells so it's not that difficult to obtain. Edited June 3, 2012 by Sommersby
georgerm Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Interesting. Stun it long enough to get pics. Best guess estimate length of disorientation with CS? Yes, XREP is for people, but who is to say they aren't our closest relatives, right? It certainly immobilizes people shot from a good distance. Law enforcement can purchase CS shells so it's not that difficult to obtain. I read about the XREP and thanks for bringing it up...............sounds like a neat device. BF would need at least 4 times the shocking power I would guess so that means shooting it with 4 XREPs which may be impossible? My guess is a powerful tranquilizer would be your best bet. Hunters have had good luck seeing BFs from tree stands. Drop the BF with a dart, then dash to it, and use chains to bind it's feet and hands. Wrap up the sucker like a mummy. Then call in your back ups with a truck and load it up while guarding the area with 12 guage autos with slugs. Do I sound like a Marine? yep.... was one but never saw war but you might. If the clan attacks you, then you are in deep trouble. In the thread on dead BFs, it mentioned pisssed off BFs do rip off arms and heads...............gulp....so practice on cows and get your act down. Better yet, just sit back, be safe, and wait.....................someone else is going to bring in a dead BF soon. The mystery is going to end this way since more and more people are onto BFs habits and territory. The first to bag a BF is going to be huge.........................plus science will go nuts. One BF will probably be sacrificed to end the mystery. Big deal.............Stalin killed over 10 million Russian humans. One dead BF is no big deal. What state do you live in? Edited June 3, 2012 by MikeG Implied expletive deleted. Religious comment deleted
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