Conspiracy Theory And Bigfoot

[Guest Theagenes]

I see there is little point is continuing to debate this NPS conspiracy idea as minds are already made up. I'm not someone who discredits the ide of conspiracies in general, because that would be naive. I'm just saying that idea that the NPS would have an official cover up Bigfoot is nonsensical because it isn't necessary. The reason NPS and other agencies don't take BF reports seriously is because mainstream society, media, and the scientific community don't take them seriously---you don't need an official cover-up for this.

Let me address a few points that do fall with my scope of knowledge.

I think it is absolutley ludicrus that the NPS has no database of missing persons.....what do they do when they find human reamains???? Do they then rely souly on the memory of the NPS employees to identify the remains????? Sarcasm! I am of the mind that unless they actually know what killed the people or made them disappear then they would expect at some point for some sort of remains to be found at some point. OR do they do what the ranchers are doing with the wolves and follow the three S protocol of Shoot Shovel and Shutup. In the case of found remains it would just be Shovel and Shutup. Either way there is something not right about this and it needs to be made right.

When human remains are found in a park and they are obviously human and not bear (something that can be difficult to determine if you only have a partial skeleton), the local sheriff departmetn is called. If there is a possibilty that they are Native American remains and not recent then the cultural resource manager is notified and NAGPRA protocols are followed.

If it's enacted at a high enough level, yes it will affect just about all parks. Though since we are swiftly moving toward a One World government, it wouldn't be as difficult to accomplish as thought.

Just look at all the reports, the cases where BF "could" be at fault and what happens. Is it coincidence that the FBI shows up? Special Forces used for a search and recover on American soil...with guns...sorry, someone knows a lot.

What we have here is a environment created which discourages a person from even speaking about BF seriously. It's all psycological programming, be it intentional or unintentional. Humans are a herd species and easily influenced and programmed, even though most people like to think they aren't.

The gag and environment would have to begin at the top. Lets say a ranger or other NPS personnel witnesses a BF. They report it to their supervisor, the supervisor reports it to his who in turn reports it to theirs. By this time the level should be the Park Manager/Director. Now the director reports it to what ever person is their supervisor who doesn't work at the park, but hob nobs with the other desk workers in Washington. This director is told by the other Washington heads to forget about it or make it disappear. So it is dissimenated back down to the level of the original ranger/employee and told it is nothing. Everyone else witnesses this and what the results are.

This would likely had been the FIRST reported sighting back in the 30's, 40's, 50's or whatever. Yet, employees continue to have sightings which they report. What can that Parks Director do? He has to create a environment which discourages employees even MAKING reports. Even gets to the point where if a employee sees one walk right in front of him HIS eyes will see a bear or refuse to register the sighting.

The Park Director will encourage a environment where if anyone reports seeing a BF, it's all laughs and "do you need to go lay down on the couch"...no one wants to be subjected to that treatment. Now keep in mind this environment has been fostered since the 50's! Imagine what the atmosphere is like now?

The Park Director isn't a bad guy, he probably hasn't personally seen one and he's doing what has allowed him to attain the position he has now....FOLLOW ORDERS! He hasn't seen one and is a skeptic anyway.

Now when a incident occurs which can't just be laughed away, that's when the desk workers in DC get in contact with the FBI. The FBI then comes in, insures the incident is cleaned as best it can and that's that.

Of course this is all speculation and maybe off...but just look at and research some of these events. There's no other way to explain them away unless it's something besides BF.

Anyone who's been in the military knows it isn't too difficult to create a environment where certain things are taboo even if they are just.

Some of this scenario you outline would not be far off the mark. Reports would not get very far up the chain, and certainly not past the Park Superintendent. In most cases it wouldn't get that far. But that doesn't mean that there is an official cover-up. There doesn't need to be one. NPS is like any other aspect of society when it comes to it's attitude towards BF. NPS will start taking BF reports seriously when the scientific community takes BF seriously. Remember if a report of a strange animal does get any attention in a park it will go to the park natural resources manager, who will usually be a biologist---in other words part of the scientific community. Most BF sightings would stop right there and be written off as a bear sighting or hoax without any need for some conspiracy.

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but in this case there is just no need for one.

Take it for what you will (underlines mine):

When we arrived we napped in the parking lot of the info center and when it opened i went in found a ranger and told him what had happened along with a female park ranger as well they didn't act surprised and they asked if we had taken pictures i explained why we didn't and they jokingly said you didn't shoot at it did you i said i didn't have a gun but wouldn't that be illegal to shoot at wildlife and they said you'd be surprised how many people do shoot at them they said thank you for reporting it but apparently it was a very common thing they didn't ask for my name or even write the report down.

OTHER WITNESSES: yes my best friend at the time and myself and we reported it to two Park Ranger Employees working on the Flamingo end of the park that next morning which was a Thursday morning

OTHER STORIES: No other than the fact the Rangers said it was common place and they even seemed to know by my description which creature i was talking about.

http://www.bfro.net/...rt.asp?id=36218

Okay, this I can speak with more experience about, because I've done a lot of work in the Everglades and know some of the rangers there and the mindset. This very much sounds like the rangers are having a little fun or just humoring them. There is a kind of running gag in the park, because of the Skunk Ape guy in Everglades City with the campground who is a well-known hoaxer with a suit. He's kind of a local joke but hates the park staff while they just kind of chuckle at him. They obviously don't want him to get accidentily shot though, but with tourists they'll go along with the gag and then have a good laugh about it. That's a big part of the problem with hoaxers. If there were a legitmate sighting reported there, the park staff would just dismiss it as the Skunk Ape guy running around in his suit to scare the tourists and sell his dvds and t-shirts.

[Guest Cervelo]

T,

What would be your opinion on why overnite camping is not allowed in the Great Dismal Swamp in Va/NC?

There is one designated campground that you have to paddle to and no night paddling is allowed. But other than that out by dark is the rule.

[Guest Theagenes]

Well Dismal is a Wildlife Refuge so USF&W not NPS, but my guess would the same reason a number of parks across the country, state and federal, have reduced hours: cuts in funding. If we have the proposed cuts from the fiscal cliff you can expect more of that.

[Guest]

Thank you for your information Theagenes, it is a pleasure having you on the forum!

I agree with most of what you wrote... why make it more difficult than it is? Most people don't believe bigfoot exists, so most will respond exactly as you described. See it every day. At some point, however, policy was made and information exists regarding bigfoot and how it would be handled and I those people knew exactly what they were doing... making or saving money somewhere.

[Guest Theagenes]

Your very welcome. I'm happy share whatever I know about NPS and how it works. To be fair my direct knowledge is limited to the SE region though. It may be that NPS staff in places like the NW are less skepitcal about BF, but I really can't speak to that.

I have been going back and reading some of the posts from the earlier thread that this was merged with and it is seems to me that there are only a couple of specific incidents that people can point to as examples of a government cover up of BF and even assuming they're true, they are not examples of the civilian regulatory agencies like NPS, USFS, or USFW covering something up, but rather the military or the FBI. I don't doubt that the military is good at keeping secrets---park service staff, many of whom are temporary employees? Not so much. Other than that the reasoning seems to be "The government must know bigfoot exists because, well, they're the government. And Bigfoot does exist. So they must know." That is the textbook definition of circular logic.

Coonbo's tales seem to me to be mostly examples of him misinterpreting innocuous incidents as something nefarious. He's encountered "survey crews" in plain clothes in white SUVs with government plates? That could have been a description of me yesterday when I was in the field.

It also occurs to me that the Skunk Ape guy I referred to earlier as a "well-known hoaxer" might be a member of this forum, so let me qualify that by changing it to "he is widely perceived by everybody in the area, inside and outside of the park as a rather obvious and very active hoaxer."

Edited December 20, 2012 by Theagenes

[Guest Cervelo]

T,

While I get the financial end of things.

What I have found odd in my travels, which include all varieties of parks systems, is for example.

Yellowstone NP encourages backcountry camping but I found the nites spent to be oddly restrictive based on how few people go backcountry.

Badlands NP effectively said go wherever you want but we are not going to come looking for you.

Vouyagers NP where you have to paddle to your camp site complete free for all just let them know when your coming out.

Just looking for an insiders perspective on what drives such varied perspectives.

I've always thought it had something to do with difficulty of rescue, or something along those lines.

But my experience in the Dismal Swamp has very much made me feel something is being hidden.

Why would a sign be on a obviously maintained road in the heart of the swamp.

That the public can only access by boat, this sign was not at this location 3weeks earlier.

Probably a perfectly benign reason but very odd to the causal observer....

Thanks for your comments, it's much appreciated!

Edit this was a couple of years ago when they actually had over a foot of snow... global what?

Edited December 20, 2012 by Cervelo

[Guest Theagenes]

Cervalo, I can only speak in generalities because I don't the specific details about these parks and refuges (and this is way out of my area of expertise), but usual when it comes to reduction of access to remote areas it comes down to money (and liability). And you're correct that difficulty of rescue is a big part of that equation. Maintaining the personnel and equipment needed for backcountry rescues on a 24 hour basis is not cheap and if there is not a lot of revenue being generated for that activity, then it might not be cost effective for a park that is tight on money (and they all are these days) to keep it up. But these kind of things depend on the park and the superintendent, which is why you see different policies. And USFW will likely have different policies than NPS.

For something like this particular sign to go up restricting all access completely, that could be because there is a natural resource they are trying to protect. Nesting birds, gopher tortoises, etc. Just speculation on my part though. Could it be BF they're trying to protect? Maybe, but I think nesting birds is more likely.

[Drew]

Neil Burgstahler used to call us NSA operatives at JREF.

He claimed that Bigfoot was captured and held at the UC-Berkely.

The Bigfoot was invisible, and it escaped. Dr. Stephen Hawking was one of the scientists in charge over there at the time.

Anyway, he considered any Bigfoot skeptics to be paid, NSA operatives, out to discredit Bigfoot, because the government couldn't let us know it existed.

(I wish I got paid to be a BF skeptic)

Edited December 20, 2012 by Drew

[Guest Theagenes]

It's quite possible that I'm just a nefarious NPS disinformation agent.

(I'm not, but it does sound cool)

Truthfully, I really didn't come here to just be a debunker. I really am fascinated by the subject whether it represents a real zoological phenomenon or ar cultural one. Either way it's incredibly interesting. I find the personal encounter stories to be very intriguing as well as the potential for DNA evidence. I just don't think that we should throw out common sense in a desire to believe something.

I will say this though. I tried to visit Robert Lindsey's site and it's blocked on the DOI network that I'm on. So maybe the government is trying to cover up BF after all. Or maybe the DOI IT guys just have good taste.

[Guest]

Some of this scenario you outline would not be far off the mark. Reports would not get very far up the chain, and certainly not past the Park Superintendent. In most cases it wouldn't get that far. But that doesn't mean that there is an official cover-up. There doesn't need to be one. NPS is like any other aspect of society when it comes to it's attitude towards BF. NPS will start taking BF reports seriously when the scientific community takes BF seriously. Remember if a report of a strange animal does get any attention in a park it will go to the park natural resources manager, who will usually be a biologist---in other words part of the scientific community. Most BF sightings would stop right there and be written off as a bear sighting or hoax without any need for some conspiracy.

In an environment where reports don't get very far up the chain, it's very easy to surpress information, even if it is unintentional.

You say the NPS will take BF serious when the scientific community does? So what happens when a BF just walks right in one of your meetings and grabs a cup of water (the biologist isn't there to witness of course)? Will everyone just behave as though they don't see it because it hasn't been validated by the scientific community?

You also state that due to this, most sightings will be written off as a bear sighting or hoax...Can you understand why people deduct that there is a conspiracy? So in reality, it isn't a conspiracy, just ignorance of the situation? And I'm not saying this to be snarky...

[Guest Theagenes]

Yes, that's exactly right. It's ignorance and also apathy.

And a BF walked into one of our staff meetings I think that would be the greatest thing ever.

But seriously, if the scientific community changes it's stance on BF for whatever reason, a body being found or through DNA, you will see a dramatic change in the attitude of the federal agencies.

[Guest]

I'm certainly not an expert but some National Wldlife Refuges are very restrictive because of nesting birds or species reintroduction. St. Vincent's Wildlife Preserve has several of those signs that come and go at different times of the year. There are some rare bird breeding grounds on this Island and Red Wolves brought from North Carolina. I think you have to be of the Island by sundown as well. This is a small island off the coast of Apalachicola Fl. I don't think Bigfoot live on the Island but, the mainland in that part of Florida is a hot bed of activity. Up the Apalachicola River is some of the most Primeval looking and desolate forest I have ever seen. That great thermal video is from somewhere around there.

[Guest truetalk]

ive been reading through the bigfoot encounters reports as i find them fascinating. there were a few reports where the witnesses said that after thier encounters they were trying to put together teams to go out and capture one of the bigfoots and were visited by government officials that told them no they were not gonna do that and that was the end it of. one report stated that the officail told them they know all about the bigfoots and that the bigfoots were the forrest pets and were not to be bothered

[VAfooter]

But my experience in the Dismal Swamp has very much made me feel something is being hidden.

Why would a sign be on a obviously maintained road in the heart of the swamp.

That the public can only access by boat, this sign was not at this location 3weeks earlier.

Probably a perfectly benign reason but very odd to the causal observer....

So did you go down that road????

[AaronD]

Yeah that was strange