Habituators Evidence

[Guest]

I love it when "habituators" come to a website and talk about all the encounters, pics and video, the hand feeding, names they've given the animals, prints, hair, ect... Then, when asked to supply proof they uniformly quote, "I'm not here to prove anything, believe it or not, I don't care. I've spent a lot of time posting, chatting and laying out all the evidence and my special relationship with BF, but I'm not here to prove anything." Really? You wasted all that time and effort to prove nothing? I doubt it. Who needs attention that badly? I guess if you watch reality TV, it's clear that there are quite a few people who need attention, and will do **** near anything to get it. Someday, somehow, someone will bring in a body. They will be the only person who deserves, and gets all the attention.

[Guest]

I love it when "habituators" come to a website and talk about all the encounters, pics and video, the hand feeding, names they've given the animals, prints, hair, ect... Then, when asked to supply proof they uniformly quote, "I'm not here to prove anything, believe it or not, I don't care. I've spent a lot of time posting, chatting and laying out all the evidence and my special relationship with BF, but I'm not here to prove anything." Really? You wasted all that time and effort to prove nothing? I doubt it. Who needs attention that badly? I guess if you watch reality TV, it's clear that there are quite a few people who need attention, and will do **** near anything to get it. Someday, somehow, someone will bring in a body. They will be the only person who deserves, and gets all the attention.

You are making similar mistakes/assumptions as Leisureclass above and using the words Bigfoot ..humm, what? Researcher? Prover? Hunter? might be more appropriate ..that way folks like Moneymaker, or Biscardi, or Fasano, Dyer, or any number of well know Bigfoot pursuers aren't left out of our perception of who is seeking attention. Seems that line doesn't reside exclusively with Habuituators (or even Bigfoot Researcher Critics!)..and is a phenomenon of humanity.

In the Habituating Thread in this forum many who have had repeated witnesses have shared those items you request, video, photos, sound...pretty much all the same evidence anyone has collected and falls short of proof. The depth of their experiences however, might exceed what we learn from the "hunter/tracker" type when it comes to behavior and understanding. Habituators have also contributed DNA samples.. You can see my attempt too share (the link in that thread to, at the end).

"A waste of time to do this and not prove,"...because the claims aren't proven...is also an assumption on your part that misleads you, at least for me, it doesn't feel like a waste of time...anything but.... posting in this forum however, or talking with those whose minds are set does sometimes!

.

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest]

I think you are confusing a few stereotypes and inventing a false conflict. Habituation refers to familiarizing the subject with the observer. Bait, feeding, and/or observation are valid methods.

Some habituators are keen to prove and share all the evidence they collect. Some don't.

Some do so in the name of science, some as friends of BFs (to spread a message in marked contrast to many more sensational stories of scary stalkings, or kidnappings), some as accidental neighbors.

If you allow for that kind of variability in the type of individuals involved in habituation your last question may not seem so difficult to answer yourself.

I have to agree I don't see any benefit, actually for any Bigfoot Enthusiast to share in the ways we measure benefit conventionally, i.e. money, fame, popularity respect...etc...

Moneymaker perhaps has made his sharing a benefit...and some others.

I recently, after many false starts, decided to be more public sharing her,e and now on an infant blog.

Is there any benefit? These experiences fill my memory, my problem solving mind, and my heart..there are among some of the most amazing experiences I have had (and I have had a long adventurous life). Because there is no conventional outlet to discuss it, it became almost a necessity to share the experience, and one hopes (eyes almost shut!) that someone will benefit, and somehow Bigfoots will too.

I doubt I will ever know if my sharing makes a difference, one way or the other, and am sharing in faith. I don't know. I keep trying to reevaluate my efforts and keep it flexible, un-publishing is just a button away!

I know what habituation is. Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey are two of the more prominent examples. The issue I have is much like what Bigfoot Texas said - people who talk about how they have this deep, meaningful connection with BF because of the habituation, and go on and on about how they and their Bigfoot are BFFs, which means they could never take advantage by providing evidence. It does smack of attention seeking, "I'm friends with bigfoot and you're not" behavior. At least Goodall and Ross published their findings.

Edited March 5, 2013 by leisureclass

[Guest]

The habituators have the most useful information. I value everything they say. Anyone who is having multiple encounters from the same being or group of beings is a habituator. In actuality, it is us that is being habituated, not the other way around. They are letting us know they are there and doing it on purpose. I know this is the case with me. They have tried very hard to make me aware of them. They started in 2006 and I didn't figure out what was going on until 2011. Otherwise you would not notice them. And as far as proof goes, many habituators try to get pictures and video, but they have the same problems as researchers. The fact is, if a habituator wants to experience them more than they already are, they need to leave all the cameras at home. Many habituators have discovered just that.

[Guest]

I know what habituation is. Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey are two of the more prominent examples. The issue I have is much like what Bigfoot Texas said - people who talk about how they have this deep, meaningful connection with BF because of the habituation, and go on and on about how they and their Bigfoot are BFFs, which means they could never take advantage by providing evidence. It does smack of attention seeking, "I'm friends with bigfoot and you're not" behavior. At least Goodall and Ross published their findings.

well one might say your posts since arrival smack of attention seeking...what contitutes attention seeking is personal opinion in every way...and in this case mine of you, but I also think you are relatively young and/or new to this forum or BFness or even really habituators...so I am not forming an opinion here...just noticed you came into BFF with a bang...

In those cases you describe, well I don't know who that might be, the "I'm friiends and your're not." But, ya I suppose that would be irksome, just like over puffed anything, from BFRO invitation membership, to Finding BF, to FB/FB, to BE ...haha you name it, if it's Bigfootery it's objectionable to someone right?

Go check out my site and tell me if it is really different than many enthusiasts...all of our evidence falls short.....all around..haven't seen a BF site/researcher yet to put out anything much better in total (that is the difference..the repeat site attention) .... some isolated cases, and then how do we know? Meldrum endorses? BFRO?

But as far as I can tell the better evidence is coming from repeat witness researchers from one site and most engage in baiting..and by definition become habituators (even without baiting if they repeatedly observe).

Soon Bart's thermal will join popular views... and interesting...that's become a repeat site..a habituation site really....and one they plan on returning to and working....wonder if others will call them Habituators...?

Quite a few habituators have published their findings, but it sounds like you don't feel they have done enough..well I suppose many don't ..and many didn't accept Goodall's personal observations, even though she kept a daily Journal...but she did have Leaky and funding..and eventually got that PhD and the photography.....maybe Dr. Anna Nekaris will do that soon....

Liesureclass...your penname does not say "field researcher.." lol sorry if I am succumbing to stereotypes myself...what is your interest in BFness...?

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[Cotter]

It's funny, b/c reading these types of threads 'taunting' folks for evidence/proof I realize that if I had a clear vid or photo, I wouldn't post it on the forum. But I'd share it with folks privately.

I can see how some almost feel as if it is a victory over skeptics when he/she has evidence, but withholds it. Some members here have shared some pretty cool stuff with my privately, nothing conclusive, but way better than the blobs that you see elsewhere on the net.

[indiefoot]

Do we need a new rule on the BFF, you can't talk about something unless you can prove what you say?

I guess you could buy one of these folk property and see for yourself.... Oh wait, Adrian did that and got all kinds of evidence. Even hired a Phd.

[Guest]

Do we need a new rule on the BFF, you can't talk about something unless you can prove what you say?

I guess you could buy one of these folk property and see for yourself.... Oh wait, Adrian did that and got all kinds of evidence. Even hired a Phd.

lol or maybe for life in general..think of all the quiet time... funny!

Cotter, I agree...there is a lot out there not shared b/c it falls short or people just don't think it benefits BFs or themselves to share .... I had hoped the MK study would open that flood gate.. it's not....but maybe one day....or not..

I do think for many (me anyway) a point is passed..where it doesn't matter anymore to "prove" to validate/vindicate..the hurt for that disbelief is old and did it's damage proving won't change that.....and not sure we as a people will handle the news well... It has occurred to me that some humans may think eliminating BFs is a valid course....? Is that possible?

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[Cotter]

There are people on this planet that want to eradicate other humans based on all sorts reasons...imagine now when a 'wild human' is discovered that folks don't understand at all. There will be the push to eradicate them as well.....

[Guest]

I actually have come to this thinking recently Cotter...so, I don't know what I am doing...some days I wake up and want to hide with this knowledge and other days say..proof is inevitable and hearing from some who had good experiences and/or compassion is a responsibility... I feel small and knowing this stuff is troublesome!

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[LeafTalker]

Apehuman, I agree with you. I think there's a responsibility to share a positive attitude about BF, and it seems to me you've handled that responsibility very gracefully -- and will continue to do so, as the need gets greater. You are not 'small' -- you are wise and kind, and there is a lot of power in that.

[Guest]

I am fortified and not alone! One of the reasons I do come here and post. You and many others also sharing and putting out the positive aspects of not just BFs, but humans too. We do have the law and modern thinking, it is't 1800.... so ya... ya!

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[Sasfooty]

"I am fortified and not alone! One of the reasons I do come here and post."

That's the reason I talk about it, too! We need to know we aren't alone.

[Guest]

"I am fortified and not alone! One of the reasons I do come here and post."

That's the reason I talk about it, too! We need to know we aren't alone.

I agree and that is why I came to find this place. Before here, all I had were my books.

[Guest]

well one might say your posts since arrival smack of attention seeking...what contitutes attention seeking is personal opinion in every way...and in this case mine of you, but I also think you are relatively young and/or new to this forum or BFness or even really habituators...so I am not forming an opinion here...just noticed you came into BFF with a bang...

In those cases you describe, well I don't know who that might be, the "I'm friiends and your're not." But, ya I suppose that would be irksome, just like over puffed anything, from BFRO invitation membership, to Finding BF, to FB/FB, to BE ...haha you name it, if it's Bigfootery it's objectionable to someone right?

I didn't mean to refer to folks who are approaching habituation from a research or scientific perspective; I was talking more about the Janice Carter Coy types, or the people who approach it from a mystical perspective; someone in another thread posted about how their bigfoot BFF taught them the ways of the forest and how to live in harmony with the earth spirits or some such. I apologize if I offended you.

Go check out my site and tell me if it is really different than many enthusiasts...all of our evidence falls short.....all around..haven't seen a BF site/researcher yet to put out anything much better in total (that is the difference..the repeat site attention) .... some isolated cases, and then how do we know? Meldrum endorses? BFRO?

But as far as I can tell the better evidence is coming from repeat witness researchers from one site and most engage in baiting..and by definition become habituators (even without baiting if they repeatedly observe).

I can't speak to the quality of the evidence for any specific method over any other, since, as you say, it all comes up short. As I mentioned in another thread, it would be interesting if a habituator were to collect stool samples from their suspected BF and have them looked at - I imagine a local zoo or university's zoology department would be willing to at least look at photos to see if they can identify the source.

Soon Bart's thermal will join popular views... and interesting...that's become a repeat site..a habituation site really....and one they plan on returning to and working....wonder if others will call them Habituators...?

That whole thing s perplexing - someone allegedly killed multiple BFs at that site, but they keep returning to it? I don't doubt Bart's bona fides, but it seems odd that a species who are so skittish about human contact would keep going back.

Quite a few habituators have published their findings, but it sounds like you don't feel they have done enough..well I suppose many don't ..and many didn't accept Goodall's personal observations, even though she kept a daily Journal...but she did have Leaky and funding..and eventually got that PhD and the photography.....maybe Dr. Anna Nekaris will do that soon....

Liesureclass...your penname does not say "field researcher.." lol sorry if I am succumbing to stereotypes myself...what is your interest in BFness...?

I don't know of any BF habituators who can be compared to Goodall -- and I don't mean this as an insult -- but she spent five years as a full time researcher with "eyes on" her chimpanzees before publishing, during which time she was operating under the guidance of experienced zoologists and anthropologists. She had not only a detailed journal, but photographic evidence to back it up. Moreover, she went through the scholarly process and her work has been validated by subsequent research.

I don't understand the derision towards skeptics. If the work is solid, skeptics will have no choice but to accept the results. If the work involves contaminated samples and results in a lunatic theory about nephilemurs mating with humans, the results will be rejected, as they should be.

Edited March 5, 2013 by leisureclass