Guest Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 IMO given the time period, somebody should have a body years ago. Cotter, you're right, I had not considered the "we eat Chaka" option. However, if someone had eaten Chaka, wouldn't they want to keep the cool Chaka skull as a memento? Chaka skull on the wall or Chaka skull on the hood of your truck?
Guest Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Approx. how far is Rogers County from your location? Pretty far. Rogers County is right outside Tulsa. I know people in Tulsa who don't even know the Ouachitas exist. There should be no impact from this incident on our ability to operate.
Guest zenmonkey Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Its not a matter of opinion or even a "view" bipto and his crew are out to prove the animal is real. Biology 101 is to take a type specimine. I understand the ethical side of this I suppose but that is basic and exactly how biology works
Guest Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) yeah, that is one view/argument.. Another might be Biology 101 demands they be recognized by BFers in the genus homo, translated..."man" and then whatever species within that, whether homo erectus, or sapiens, or another. And, any attempt by a BFer to "take" a specimen and claim they are ignorant of this taxonomy is a fiction, or they are a really uneducated person. Neither excuse works really, for me. All the biology I have been taught says any primate that is bi-pedal (and so like us!) is in the genus Homo. Not one clear example of a bi-pedal, big toe in line with four others, upright, two hands so similar, whistles like an expert, two eyes forward, etc, etc....primate in the great ape lines (or monkey, or anything)...anywhere, past or present. And, so many examples of hominins, past...just 11,000 years ago the RDC people eating giant deer.... and aren't modern humans or Neandertals... if they survived till today...would you shoot one to prove it? Edited November 6, 2013 by apehuman
Guest Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) This is a great article, and Dr. Curnoe received a top award in archaeology last year for his work on the Red Deer Cave people. I think it is becoming clear to everyone (while it might not have been in 2000 or so, pre genomes, and many recently published fossil finds) what "line" BFs belong to, and it is not some new species of great ape, never seen before in the fossil record, as attractive as the Gigantopithicus theory was. A renaming recently to "wood apes": by this group, set on their own proving through a body, seems an obvious attempt to push away any moral questions for doing so... willful ignorance. Just my opinion, sorry it is not attractive here and I will make this my last post in this thread...I don't want to divert this really (I want to see this "taking" effort end. But, I don't think arguing here will end it) . I see the Occam's Razor concept quoted a lot.in BFF,.well, applied in our situation the simple answer for me is: BFs are some type of "man" http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/evolution-revolution/ Edited November 6, 2013 by apehuman
Guest zenmonkey Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 yeah, that is one view/argument.. Another might be Biology 101 demands they be recognized by BFers in the genus homo, translated..."man" and then whatever species within that, whether homo erectus, or sapiens, or another. And, any attempt by a BFer to "take" a specimen and claim they are ignorant of this taxonomy is a fiction, or they are a really uneducated person. Neither excuse works really, for me. All the biology I have been taught says any primate that is bi-pedal (and so like us!) is in the genus Homo. Not one clear example of a bi-pedal, big toe in line with four others, upright, two hands so similar, whistles like an expert, two eyes forward, etc, etc....primate in the great ape lines (or monkey, or anything)...anywhere, past or present. And, so many examples of hominins, past...just 11,000 years ago the RDC people eating giant deer.... and aren't modern humans or Neandertals... if they survived till today...would you shoot one to prove it? Excellent point. But with little evadence of the creature and even less of a social order (no more than an ape) we are dealing with an animal. Indeed a special one with the traits you listed before. But and to answer your question. Yes, yes to prove the biggest scientific discovery of our time. I'd shoot the crap out of one And that's not an argument. It's how science works. Getting rid of variables and providing control. So ignorance of taxonomy isn't an option either. I do have a degree in biology (never used it professionally) but I am pretty sharp on primates. And I think your work that you sent me a few months ago was awesome keep it up!!! Ape human!
Guest Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) I really appreciate your answer Zen, you are being straightforward on the proof issue whether....man or ape..they are .not modern, not cultured, not us...and its OK in this state of disbelief for anyone to prove by killing one (no matter the details) And, the law might agree at some future date, (even if I don't!) ...BFs, or what I once hopefully called (hahah!) "Homo indomitus"..if they remain truly beyond the law, without ruler, etc...and unwilling or unable to meet whatever we humans desire they do.... then I am pretty sure many would agree and "manage" them like animals.. The more immediate question is, really, for those attempting to kill one..and the layers of possibilities/failures/consequences they have to weigh..and so far.... the benefits zero...so, each must measure by their own heart/mind ya know.. I lied...hahah.... I did post again, but in I hope the flow.....!! thanks... ! .... Edited November 6, 2013 by apehuman
yowiie Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) This is a great article, and Dr. Curnoe received a top award in archaeology last year for his work on the Red Deer Cave people. I think it is becoming clear to everyone (while it might not have been in 2000 or so, pre genomes, and many recently published fossil finds) what "line" BFs belong to, and it is not some new species of great ape, never seen before in the fossil record, as attractive as the Gigantopithicus theory was. A renaming recently to "wood apes": by this group, set on their own proving through a body, seems an obvious attempt to push away any moral questions for doing so... willful ignorance. Just my opinion, sorry it is not attractive here and I will make this my last post in this thread...I don't want to divert this really (I want to see this "taking" effort end. But, I don't think arguing here will end it) . I see the Occam's Razor concept quoted a lot.in BFF,.well, applied in our situation the simple answer for me is: BFs are some type of "man" http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/evolution-revolution/ You couldn't be more further from the truth, that is your opinion only. Have you ever seen one? Edited November 6, 2013 by yowiie
Guest Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Not as clearly as I want, and a reason perhaps I kept trying. My best daytime witness at about 80 yards and only the general form for about four strides, another even worse in daylight..nothing I could hang too much on. I did however 'see" them at night closer, but the detail lacking..only the bulk, and general shape. On some occasions extended, and as some report, there was a gentle rocking motion of what seemed an adult I locked eye-shine to eyes with in a no moon situation..and many others similar..it was more an eyeshine to me.... the closest at 5' while i tucked in my tent trailer, at the window and was kind of a disturbing visit actually....often heard them run away if I awakened ... I used FLIR successfully (but badly on the tech end really) on one trip that did confirm a great deal...that I assumed was happening in the dark prior, based on sound, eyes, etc... I was often alone so forgive me I did not rush in (or use flashlight aggressively) .. and stuff like that. Some bad video... I do rely, now, after my witness on the many who have had very close encounters and report a very human like appearance (now b/c I can also weigh that witnesses 'credibility" to some level than with no field experience at all....)... and yet clearly not modern human... .it seems to depend to some degree on the person's point of view...for some a human looking body, completely covered in hair, with a primitive looking face, no clothing/uncertain material culture, must be an animal or ape.... and yet, without hair many would say human.... the picture I get is that accidental witnesses especially, and possibly investigators, introduce bias from the start.....we all inform ourselves from our perspectives.....my first data pushed me to more human like behavior (and the video...tracks..etc biology) than ape... A good deal of that in the first habituating BF thread..and again.. I need to leave, I promised! I hope that is enough. Edited November 6, 2013 by apehuman
Lake County Bigfooot Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 If somehow your organization manages to take one these creatures, what is the next step, do you have sufficient manpower to move an animal of this size spur of the moment, I mean it's buddies might not take a liking to your actions, (Ape Canyon) and you may have to fight to keep it, and I think they will kill you for the body, it might get real ugly real fast. And who will you present the body to, as soon as word got out you would have the CIA all over you, and men in black. You better be able to document everything about it, cause odds are you lose custody of the body, and they make you look like a bunch of hoaxers. That's the reality, so you better be real prepared.
Guest Darrell Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 And who will you present the body to, as soon as word got out you would have the CIA all over you, and men in black. You better be able to document everything about it, cause odds are you lose custody of the body, and they make you look like a bunch of hoaxers. That's the reality, so you better be real prepared. How is any of that "the reality"? If the NAWAC procures a type specimen good for them, why would the Govt or men in black (if they exist) even come into play until later?
Guest zenmonkey Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) I like how everyone assumes that they are all inexperienced and haven't thought any of this through after years and years of intense research. but billy bob on his computer has I have all the "fath" in the world in these guys Edited November 13, 2013 by zenmonkey remove offensive wording
Guest Darrell Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 As far as faith, if there is bigfoot, I think they will collect one. And I agree that they are thinking this out and planning accordingly.
Guest Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 Bip. Curious why you don't already have a speciman . If they are close enough to throw rocks what is the hold up? Is there a specific condition or situation you are waiting for? Perhaps for a perfect tactical advantage in successfully taking a specimen?
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