Guest WesT Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Wes nice picture. It may be bigfoot or a natural fall from a windy day. Discussing evidence such as tree structures is one of the trickiest areas in sasquatch research/forum in my opinion. It’s tricky because structures vary and there are many natural limb falls that create natural and strange structures. In my opinion, bigfoot probably makes 10% of them, and they are probably territorial markers for other bigfoots. Several times I’ve seen rocks stacked and the same applies. The scientific method still applies with nearly all scientific endeavors. (forum endeavor - bigfoot proof) have fun...............good day Thanks george. Don't know myself how that happened as I wasn't there when it did. Bodhi, sounds more like an excuse than a reason. Crowlogic, you brought up portals in a wood manipulation thread. Don't be a facepalm waiting to happen. If you wish to engage the portal crowd this isn't the thread to do it in. Better check your facts it was the poster above my post about portals that brought the subject into this thread. Maybe so, but you didn't hesitate to latch onto it. Bodhi, sounds more like an excuse than a reason. Crowlogic, you brought up portals in a wood manipulation thread. Don't be a facepalm waiting to happen. If you wish to engage the portal crowd this isn't the thread to do it in. Better check your facts it was the poster above my post about portals that brought the subject into this thread. The facts seem less important than a good narrative to some folks Crow. Go derail some other thread please. If you have a bone to pick with WSA take it somewhere else. Thank you in advance.
hiflier Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Hello WesT, Back on topic stick structures by the very term imply something not naturally made IMO. The word "structure" leads my mind at least into the idea that they aren't just naturally occurring tree falls from ice, wind, or snow loads but rather something more intentionally made. Saying stick structure is a 50/50 thing especially on a BF Forum. I think a movement away from stick structure as a term to something else like "stick formation" maybe? IDK but a more generic term could be better that doesn't hint at "built" perhaps. sure it changes the paradigm everyone's used to but it would also lead the subject into maybe a more objective definition. Just my two rocks worth tossed into the camp.
WSA Posted January 5, 2016 Author Posted January 5, 2016 Not sure what I think about the so-called BF shelters. On the one hand, it is not a stretch to consider an animal with opposable thumbs to have the capability to build those. The "why" is a lot less clear to me. At any rate, there are plenty of other possible wood manipulations out there to give plenty of food for thought, and those are what really intrigue me. So how/what/why would something separate a locust tree sapling and remove it? If you claim to know, what is the evidence to support it? All I'm sayin'. If you were a hoaxer intent on hoaxing this, it would seem you're not getting much candy for your nickel. That is a lot of effort for something pretty mundane by hoaxing standards. So far, the only thing I could think of to replicate that (assuming no vehicle or equipment tracks in the vicinity) would be a shaped charge attached to the trunk. Seems like a rather weird way to spend your time, if so. I'd also think the "break" would be much more jagged and splintered if you did that.
Guest WesT Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Hello hiflier, I agree, as the word structure and manipulation imply a non natural occurrence. George nailed it. It's a very slippery slope when you find these and attempt to ascertain how they came to be and what purpose they may have had. If any. I've documented both a structure and manipulations. When I get home this evening I'll show you what I consider a structure and a manipulation. It might be we're going about this wrong. Maybe it's not a question of what are they but more a question of what were they. Edited January 6, 2016 by WesT
WSA Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 I think you raise a good point about the premise WestT, but I chose that title for the thread deliberately. My hypothesis is some of these things were constructed, deliberately, by flesh and blood entities and not by some kind of natural cause, and not in the absence of of intelligent agency. So far, that theory has held up to my satisfaction. I'm still awaiting some solid counter-hypothesis as to the how/why of these manifestations. The most obvious being, of course, is that they are manmade things. But if a logical case can't be made for human agency (and I don't consider a default conclusion that they "had" to have been manmade to be a logical case...especially absent evidence of mechanical agency and the presence of evidence of physical improbability) it continues to be a mystery awaiting an explanation.
Guest WesT Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Ok hiflier, here ya go. Manipulation Structure Well WSA, I know I'd like some answers.
Incorrigible1 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 ::seeks exit. Not show I was looking for:: 1
Bodhi Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 west, as mentioned in the most recent squatchers lounge podcast, why? The hosts of that show, one who claims to have had at least one up close sighting and the other who is a researcher, couldn't imagine any logical reason for a sasquatch to make such a structure. This seems to be something you are really in to considering your avatar so I'm assuming you've thought that out. What are those thoughts?
Guest WesT Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Hey Bodhi, yes I have thought it out. As I stated up thread, my purpose in this thread is to raise awareness, and that's where I've nailed my colors to the mast. I don't plant my flag with individuals, just to be clear, and I welcome your pov on this highly debatable subject. With that out of the way I'll address the podcast you referred to. When I came upon the structure that I documented I asked myself the same question. Why? It seemed like a lot of work for nothing, so logically, it surely had a purpose. So I tasked myself to examine it in depth in order to ascertain a possible purpose. The evidence I documented and observed (explained up thread) lead me to the conclusion that the intended purpose of the structure was for hunting. A new (to me anyways) hunting technique. Don't know for a fact who or what was responsible, but it was primitive, yet genius, at the same time. And the creator(s?) seemed to attempt to conceal it's intended purpose by partially dismantling the structure shortly after it's initial discovery. I really wish I knew of a cultural anthropologist, who study's and documents human hunting techniques, to see if they've heard of anything like it. Edited January 7, 2016 by WesT
Guest Crowlogic Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) A well known research group just released an entire podcast on structures. They focus on huge pieces of timber. But still nothing that couldn't be done by some dedicated pranksters or even the researchers themselves. I don't trust anybody in the bigfoot community and the more it gets to giving some a bit of an income from YT scripts bet there's more incentive to fakery. Edited January 7, 2016 by Crowlogic
Bodhi Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Hey Bodhi, yes I have thought it out. As I stated up thread, my purpose in this thread is to raise awareness, and that's where I've nailed my colors to the mast. I don't plant my flag with individuals, just to be clear, and I welcome your pov on this highly debatable subject. With that out of the way I'll address the podcast you referred to. When I came upon the structure that I documented I asked myself the same question. Why? It seemed like a lot of work for nothing, so logically, it surely had a purpose. So I tasked myself to examine it in depth in order to ascertain a possible purpose. The evidence I documented and observed (explained up thread) lead me to the conclusion that the intended purpose of the structure was for hunting. A new (to me anyways) hunting technique. Don't know for a fact who or what was responsible, but it was primitive, yet genius, at the same time. And the creator(s?) seemed to attempt to conceal it's intended purpose by partially dismantling the structure shortly after it's initial discovery. I really wish I knew of a cultural anthropologist, who study's and documents human hunting techniques, to see if they've heard of anything like it. So is your idea that they, sasquatches, hide within the stucture at some point whilst hunting? If so, for the things you've found, did you go over them looking for hair, bones, scat? Assuming so, what were the results? If all this is discussed by you up thread, just let me know. Thanks. A well known research group just released an entire podcast on structures. They focus on huge pieces of timber. But still nothing that couldn't be done by some dedicated pranksters or even the researchers themselves. I don't trust anybody in the bigfoot community and the more it gets to giving some a bit of an income from YT scripts bet there's more incentive to fakery. Crow, Which podcast please?
Guest WesT Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 Yes, the logical mind always finds a way to explain things within the parameters of what we know as fact. For most people anyways. I have yet to see a structure or suspected manipulation that I couldn't figure out a way to replicate myself. Good luck to anyone who wishes to put a lot of time and effort into a YT vid about it for financial gain or noteriety. How many hits does it take before a YT vid starts paying out?
Guest WesT Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 So is your idea that they, sasquatches, hide within the stucture at some point whilst hunting? If so, for the things you've found, did you go over them looking for hair, bones, scat? Assuming so, what were the results? If all this is discussed by you up thread, just let me know. Thanks. I really wish I knew for a fact it was a sasquatch, but I don't because I never witnessed it being used, much less ever seeing a sasquatch. Never saw any bones. Deer, bear, and Bobcat scat, but nothing out of the ordinary. Hair, my opinion of finding hair in the forest is it could have come from anywhere and from many different animals.
WSA Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 Although lots of things associated with Sasquatch studies can, and are, hoaxed, I'm not in the least convinced these random stacks of trees and limbs in places without roads or motorized access are candidates for being hoaxes. These are things nobody would do casually, given the mass of some of the objects involved. Sure, you could build a wiki-up made from branches and brush, and although I've seen photos of some that make me go, "Hmmmm...", for the most part those are discounted as being within the scope of unassisted human abilities. (Overlooking the fact the branches in those show no evidence of being cut). It is the bigger assemblages that are begging for an explanation. These are on the remote edge of things people hoax to get attention...mainly because the vast majority of people who would come across them would have no inkling they are anything remarkable, and the effort it takes. Most people just lack the experience to know what they are looking at, or the curiosity to look closely at them. As hoaxes go, these would be remarkably subtle things, and a subtlety is not a hoaxer's long suit.
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