Do Bf's Mimic Sounds Other Animals Make?

[roguefooter]

^Sounds like the same animal to me. Probably different kinds of calls though. Only real difference is the higher pitch and echo through the woods.

Edited October 12, 2013 by roguefooter

[Branco]

???? Could you type that over again, a little bit slower this time?

[MIB]

'k, so on the topic of animal sounds ... anyone ever hear a crow or raven call with a SUBSTANTIAL echo?

 

"Just curious."  (You believe that's all there is to it, right? )

 

MIB

Edited October 12, 2013 by MIB

[southernyahoo]

I'd say the perception of volume and distance is in play with the echo. The pitch is different and there is a difference in vowel quality too. I'm working on a spectrogram view of the resonances which can illustrate it. I'll also show why it is similar in quality to a crows caw. Maybe I'll get that up tomorrow.

[NathanFooter]

MIB , you have no idea how much you just lifted my brow ,  this early May I did 2 whoops at around 10:00 AM in the morning while out on my inspection of the north western side of research area D, after the whoops I heard some brush movement about 100 yards into the spruce forest and heard a very loud strange crow several times respond to my whoops, I found it odd but I just thought it was nothing worth pursuing. 

 

Anyway when you mentioned the crow it brought back an additional memory from the 2012 BFRO MI UP Expedition I attended , we walked down a dirt road as our own group and heard crow respond immediately to the roar/screams we had done at around 10:30 PM,  it ran through my mind that we just disturbed a crow or something so we sat quietly and continued listening to here some strange movements coming in closer about 10 minutes after the crow sounds.

 

I know this is nothing more than a couple of events that can't prove anything or even make case for something but I wanted to put this out there simply due to the relation above.

 

These events very well could have been just a couple of strange crow calls.

Edited October 12, 2013 by NathanFooter

[roguefooter]

 

 Well what's it gonna be Rogue? An assumption or simple logic?

 

I use simple logic to come to conclusions. Whether other people use it or not is up to them. 

 

 

???? Could you type that over again, a little bit slower this time?

 

I agree with the "????" here..

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

I'd say the perception of volume and distance is in play with the echo. The pitch is different and there is a difference in vowel quality too. I'm working on a spectrogram view of the resonances which can illustrate it. I'll also show why it is similar in quality to a crows caw. Maybe I'll get that up tomorrow.

 

Of course there's going to be differences given they're different subjects in different settings. They don't all sound exactly alike given size, age, etc., and of course the purpose of the calls. What I see is the lynx being the subject that's capable of making those same sounds- that to me is the rational conclusion.

Edited October 12, 2013 by roguefooter

[Guest LarryP]

MIB , you have no idea how much you just lifted my brow ,  this early May I did 2 whoops at around 10:00 AM in the morning while out on my inspection of the north western side of research area D, after the whoops I heard some brush movement about 100 yards into the spruce forest and heard a very loud strange crow several times respond to my whoops, I found it odd but I just thought it was nothing worth pursuing. 

 

Anyway when you mentioned the crow it brought back an additional memory from the 2012 BFRO MI UP Expedition I attended , we walked down a dirt road as our own group and heard crow respond immediately to the roar/screams we had done at around 10:30 PM,  it ran through my mind that we just disturbed a crow or something so we sat quietly and continued listening to here some strange movements coming in closer about 10 minutes after the crow sounds.

 

I know this is nothing more than a couple of events that can't prove anything or even make case for something but I wanted to put this out there simply due to the relation above.

 

These events very well could have been just a couple of strange crow calls.

 

Nathan, there is a definite connection between Crows and BF.

[southernyahoo]

Of course there's going to be differences given they're different subjects in different settings. They don't all sound exactly alike given size, age, etc., and of course the purpose of the calls. What I see is the lynx being the subject that's capable of making those same sounds- that to me is the rational conclusion.

 

I have a file from here in Texas that is a good match for the ahhhh screams in the MRP. Have a listen.

 

Texas Michigan ahhh screams comparison.wav

[GuyInIndiana]

But of course, all this rests on the premis that the sounds are "mimics", which is an intentional act. There's not any evidence of intent. Simply that there are sounds which, especially at a distance, sound similar. Listen to an "Aaaaahhhh" scream at a very close distance, and the last thing that comes to mind is that you're hearing a crow.

 

My opinion strictly, is that the attribution of them being similar is an artifact of the nature of sounds and not some intent of the maker.

[Sasfooty]

Here's an "ahh" that I recorded that had a very human quality to it. Definitely not a lynx.

 

 

A0741-ahh.wav

[roguefooter]

^Well that's the thing Sasfooty- the Lynx does have a bit of human quality to it's voice.

[southernyahoo]

I'm really trying to help you out here Rogue.

 

 I'm using published science as a gauge to qualify my perception. In this image you'll see that I've marked the first three formants for each vocalization. The ones marked in red indicate they are attenuated and their resonance is diminished or shifted to another frequency as Lieberman explains in the link I'm providing. The ahhh screams are in agreement with the described characteristics of the vowel /a/ while the Lynx vocal does not. The spectral peaks seen in quantal vowels of humans and hominins is a good indicator for hominin sounds,  though there are a few bird species that can approximate it and hominin sounds aren't characterized by this alone.

 

Here is a spectrogram of the comparison file.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.cog.brown.edu/courses/cg195/pdf_files/fall06/CG195Lieberman.pdf

 

 

 

 

Movements of the undistorted tongue in the space 

defined by the oral cavity and pharynx can produce the abrupt 

midpoint 10:1 area function discontinuities necessary to produce 

the formant frequency patterns of the "quantal" vowels ,  

and [a] 

 

 

 

 

 

in short, the larynx provides the source of acoustic energy 

for vowels and other phonated speech sounds; the SVT act as an 

acoustic filter that determines the phonetic quality of the sounds. 

A given SVT shape will let more acoustic energy through at a set 

of particular formant frequencies, local energy maxima, occurring 

in inharmonic combinations. The lowest formant frequency is  

identified by the notation F1, the next highest as F2, the third 

as F3. For example, the vowels and of the words "see" and 

"sue", can be produced with identical F0's, -- different formant 

frequencies specify these vowels. As we talk,we change the SVTs 

shape and the resulting formant frequency pattern. 

 

 

 

 

Perceptual salience results from the convergence of two formant 

frequencies, yielding spectral peaks (Fant, 1960). For the 

second and third formants, F2 and F3, converge at a high frequency; 

for [a] F2 and F1 converging at the midpoint of the frequency 

spectrum; for F1 and F2 converge at a low frequency. 

 

 

 

[bipedalist]

• An interview with Rich Germeau, an LEO when he had two sightings (a charter Olympic Project founder and a member here i believe), indicated that his last sighting was characterized by a sound like a buck deer snort prior to the 8 footer showing himself and running off like a lightning bolt.  So maybe they imitate deer snorts as well........   ?   

This link references his sightings: http://www.ptleader.com/news/bigfoot-study-includes-olympic-peninsula-evidence/article_d9a30f64-306d-11e3-b137-0019bb30f31a.html

Edited October 12, 2013 by bipedalist

[roguefooter]

I'm really trying to help you out here Rogue.

 

 I'm using published science as a gauge to qualify my perception. In this image you'll see that I've marked the first three formants for each vocalization. The ones marked in red indicate they are attenuated and their resonance is diminished or shifted to another frequency as Lieberman explains in the link I'm providing. The ahhh screams are in agreement with the described characteristics of the vowel /a/ while the Lynx vocal does not. The spectral peaks seen in quantal vowels of humans and hominins is a good indicator for hominin sounds,  though there are a few bird species that can approximate it and hominin sounds aren't characterized by this alone.

 

Does this conclude that the Lynx is not capable of making that vowel tone or same call? No, only that the two examples did not come from the same living subject. We don't even know if they're the same kind of call. Spectrograms are normally used to identify voice from the same subject, which voice can differ from one subject to the next.

 

The two audio clips in their entirety though are similar enough to place the Lynx as the prime suspect. It makes similar AAAHHH sounds, has a human sound to it's voice, and it's voice cracks in the same manner between the two examples.

 

I've got to ask, what are the qualifications to be able to accurately analyze files in this manner and to make these kinds of determinations? Is there any scientific protocol to follow?

Edited October 13, 2013 by roguefooter

[southernyahoo]

Does this conclude that the Lynx is not capable of making that vowel tone or same call? No, only that the two examples are not exactly the same. We don't even know if they're the same kind of call.

 

The two audio clips in their entirety though are similar enough to place the Lynx as the prime suspect. It makes similar AAAHHH sounds, has a human sound to it's voice, and it's voice cracks in the same manner between the two examples.

 

I've got to ask, what are the qualifications to be able to accurately analyze files in this manner and to make these kinds of determinations? Is there any scientific protocol to follow?

 

You'd find the credentialed folks whom would have authority to be working in the field of Phonetics or Anthropologists who teach on the evolution of the human/ hominin vocal tract.

 

Your opinion on the Lynx actually counters probably 90% of the people who posted on BFF 1.0 four years ago. Skeptics , Skeptical proponents, believers were all of the opinion they were either human, ape or some fabrication using manipulated animal calls like birds. I don't recall anyone pushing the idea that the researchers simply recorded a Lynx. Remember there are many other calls at close range that are not like cat calls at all. One species that could explain them all is a robust hominin. The Lynx can't do that. 

 

Bioacoustics experts might understand how we identify human sounds by the sound itself, though I expect they are often specialized in fields like marine life or specific endangered species. 

 

Maybe you could send the file to Cornell University. They might have some interesting comments.

Edited October 13, 2013 by southernyahoo