Guest ChasingRabbits Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) My apologies. I mistakenly wrote Big Thicket when the camp was in Sam Houston. The dead man was found on a Sam Houston trail. The only thing that is specific to the Big Thicket is the Big Thicket news letter I linked and the news article reporting on a man being Med-Evacd to Houston. Apologies again for those mistakes in my previous post. That is all excellent. I do think that 911 calls are supposed to be public record, and the destroying of such calls a...(felony?). I'm not ready to accept that those records were destroyed by someone in the process of a CYA situation. Again, excellent reply! They are supposed to be public record but that doesn't stop things from going missing or being destroyed. I can't find Hardin County's regs about 911 call tapes, but here's Houston's http://www.houstontx.gov/police/public_information.htm. "Dispatch transcripts are maintained for one year, 911 audio tapes are maintained for six (6) months. Requests for 911 tapes and dispatch information are handled by the Houston Emergency Center, and can be submitted via:". So if Hardin County has the same reg as Houston, then anyone requesting dispatch transcripts or the audio tapes from Garrett's 2013 encounter had 6 months to 1 year to do it. I realize I come across as being very skeptical about law enforcement agencies because I've lived in various parts of the US and have had negative interactions with them. No I haven't been beaten, but they've been negative in that they smacked of corruption, like when two cops in Providence Rhode Island spent 30 minutes telling me what a horrible person I am for wanting to press felony charges against three 18 to 20 year old 'kids' who stole my car because a felony charge would ruin the lives of these "good kids" forever and I "wouldn't want that on (my) conscious". Edited June 18, 2015 by ChasingRabbits
Bodhi Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'm not a fan of the police in my area either and if other parts of the BG story were less fantastic (and/or corroborated) the idea of the cops covering up might be something to consider. But, IMO, there's just nothing backing up BG. As a consequence I think it likely that no 911 call was made rather than that a call was made and then those records were destroyed (either by a single cop or as a part of a larger conspiracy).
Guest diana swampbooger Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'm not a fan of the police in my area either and if other parts of the BG story were less fantastic (and/or corroborated) the idea of the cops covering up might be something to consider. But, IMO, there's just nothing backing up BG. As a consequence I think it likely that no 911 call was made rather than that a call was made and then those records were destroyed (either by a single cop or as a part of a larger conspiracy). Sure, sure, Bodhi.... boogers are gentle forest peoples. Is that your theory?
MarkGlasgow Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Sure, sure, Bodhi.... boogers are gentle forest peoples. Is that your theory? Why not? From the hundreds if not thousands of reports and testimonies I've read over the years it's clear that in the vast majority of cases these creatures/people have little interest in harming humans. I've obviously not listened to enough Sasquatch Chronicles to have my opinion changed on this matter. If BF are brutal, uncompromising killing machines then we need evidence for this claim. Even David Paulides is steering away from the possibility that Sasquatch is behind the large number of National Park deaths he has investigated. I suppose the big guy takes his fill of campers every year but we don't hear about it due to those pesky secretive feds??? 1
SWWASAS Posted June 19, 2015 BFF Patron Posted June 19, 2015 All you have to do is live in the mountains states of the West US and everyday there is evidence of the real problem with disappearing people. People get lost every day and do really stupid things. I was doing field work today and got flagged down by some young girls in a car looking for the trailhead for a popular mountain climb. They had no idea how to get there. Were relying on their cell phone for navigation but were out of cell phone coverage so that was not working, and their car would have been incapable of driving up the last part of the road. They said they had already had problems and they had not made it to the steep part yet. There is off line map software but few people have it. I was just there two weeks ago and was concerned that my high clearance 4WD truck would make the climb over the deep erosion ruts in the unmaintained road. They were in a small 2wd car with low clearance. If they were lucky they would not slide off the road or high center getting there. The last part of the road there is no place to turn around. There are little or no signs out in the woods here any more and I did not think they could find their way without signs. So they were likely to get very lost and stuck someplace. I recommended they not try. GPS will try to take you on blocked roads, roads that are snow covered in the winter and impassible, and no one since the smart phone knows how to read a paper map any more. People set off on trails too late in the day to make it out before dark. No wonder people disappear all the time.
Bodhi Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Sure, sure, Bodhi.... boogers are gentle forest peoples. Is that your theory? I would LOVE for you to explain how you came to that conclusion after you read my post. Please, with sugar on top, please explain how you got to that after you read my post. All you have to do is live in the mountains states of the West US and everyday there is evidence of the real problem with disappearing people. People get lost every day and do really stupid things. I was doing field work today and got flagged down by some young girls in a car looking for the trailhead for a popular mountain climb. They had no idea how to get there. Were relying on their cell phone for navigation but were out of cell phone coverage so that was not working, and their car would have been incapable of driving up the last part of the road. They said they had already had problems and they had not made it to the steep part yet. There is off line map software but few people have it. I was just there two weeks ago and was concerned that my high clearance 4WD truck would make the climb over the deep erosion ruts in the unmaintained road. They were in a small 2wd car with low clearance. If they were lucky they would not slide off the road or high center getting there. The last part of the road there is no place to turn around. There are little or no signs out in the woods here any more and I did not think they could find their way without signs. So they were likely to get very lost and stuck someplace. I recommended they not try. GPS will try to take you on blocked roads, roads that are snow covered in the winter and impassible, and no one since the smart phone knows how to read a paper map any more. People set off on trails too late in the day to make it out before dark. No wonder people disappear all the time. excellent and nicely stated.
beerhunter Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 ^^^^Good post , sad, but so true! Many "city folk" are unprepared as noted by the way they dress for hiking.
Guest Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) That is all excellent. I do think that 911 calls are supposed to be public record, and the destroying of such calls a...(felony?). I'm not ready to accept that those records were destroyed by someone in the process of a CYA situation. Again, excellent reply! There are lots reasons to explain missing “911†records either from system default, lack of standard uniformity, incompetence or personal intent but to think it doesn’t occur is naïve. Some of the more common reasons were accidental due to incompetence or lack of proper training and others were more flagrant and intentional. In some states “911†calls are made part of public record and some states do not allow for them to be made public and despite FOIA laws. I believe there have been court cases where the courts have decided police do not have to release “911†records provided they demonstrate compelling reasons or deemed them not in the best interest of public consumption but that is my opinion. Another consideration may be some “911†systems automatically overwrite calls within a set period of time which could be 90 days while some are deleted after 30 days provided they are not saved or considered important and there is no uniformity in systems or standards used from agency to agency or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Right or wrong there are lots of cases of missing or erased records all across the country resulting in lawsuits over missing or erased records that have caused monetary damages or firings of those found responsible. Edited June 19, 2015 by Gumshoeye
Guest diana swampbooger Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Sure, sure, Bodhi.... boogers are gentle forest peoples. Is that your theory?
Bodhi Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 There are lots reasons to explain missing “911†records either from system default, lack of standard uniformity, incompetence or personal intent but to think it doesn’t occur is naïve. Some of the more common reasons were accidental due to incompetence or lack of proper training and others were more flagrant and intentional. In some states “911†calls are made part of public record and some states do not allow for them to be made public and despite FOIA laws. I believe there have been court cases where the courts have decided police do not have to release “911†records provided they demonstrate compelling reasons or deemed them not in the best interest of public consumption but that is my opinion. Another consideration may be some “911†systems automatically overwrite calls within a set period of time which could be 90 days while some are deleted after 30 days provided they are not saved or considered important and there is no uniformity in systems or standards used from agency to agency or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Right or wrong there are lots of cases of missing or erased records all across the country resulting in lawsuits over missing or erased records that have caused monetary damages or firings of those found responsible. As I stated earlier and you have purposely ignored, if other parts of BG's story had been corroborated I'd give more credence to the idea that the "g" were covering themselves. If you continue to post these ridiculous strawman responses to arguments I've not made I will just set you to ignore. I'm not going to continually play this game with you. This is the second example of your tendencies toward strawman arguments. The first was that "insurance fraud" thing from awhile back. I'm happy to defend my arguments but I'm not going to waste my time defending against your strawman claims. Sure, sure, Bodhi.... boogers are gentle forest peoples. Is that your theory? I would LOVE for you to explain how you came to that conclusion after you read my post. Please, with sugar on top, please explain how you got to that after you read my post.
Guest diana swampbooger Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I asked the first question. Then you answer. Then you ask me a question. Then I answer. See how that works? Are you going to answer my very simple question, Bodhi? Again, for the third time: Do you think boogers are gentle forest peoples?
Guest Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) As I stated earlier and you have purposely ignored, if other parts of BG's story had been corroborated I'd give more credence to the idea that the "g" were covering themselves. If you continue to post these ridiculous strawman responses to arguments I've not made I will just set you to ignore. I'm not going to continually play this game with you. This is the second example of your tendencies toward strawman arguments. The first was that "insurance fraud" thing from awhile back. I'm happy to defend my arguments but I'm not going to waste my time defending against your strawman claims. I would LOVE for you to explain how you came to that conclusion after you read my post. Please, with sugar on top, please explain how you got to that after you read my post. Well that was rude. The idea of arguing is not that you win or whip someone it’s to get as close to the truth as possible. Your disdain is coming from a place of insecurity and you should look internally before you throw blame around and call people strawman. No turning and tossing sleepless nights for me so, I am sure you'll find the ignore button so please do. Edited June 19, 2015 by Gumshoeye
Guest ChasingRabbits Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I'm not a fan of the police in my area either and if other parts of the BG story were less fantastic (and/or corroborated) the idea of the cops covering up might be something to consider. But, IMO, there's just nothing backing up BG. As a consequence I think it likely that no 911 call was made rather than that a call was made and then those records were destroyed (either by a single cop or as a part of a larger conspiracy). As I wrote, I can't find Hardin county's regs for saving 911 calls, but if they purge the records after a specific length of time, like Houston does, then the chance of getting them now are slim to none and the chance of being told "we do not have a record of them in our system" are great.
Bodhi Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 As I wrote, I can't find Hardin county's regs for saving 911 calls, but if they purge the records after a specific length of time, like Houston does, then the chance of getting them now are slim to none and the chance of being told "we do not have a record of them in our system" are great. Yeah, the 911 records, if they exist(ed), were never brought forward. If I were BG, I would have grabbed a copy immediately after I started being hassled by the authorities and I would have done so through an attorney. Having a attorney draft a demand letter isn't cost prohibitive. But BG did not so we just have his word. That's why,IMO, this is all just a story. Nothing which could have verified the story is available or have prosaic alternate explanations (eg- helicopters over the area). Well that was rude. The idea of arguing is not that you win or whip someone it’s to get as close to the truth as possible. Your disdain is coming from a place of insecurity and you should look internally before you throw blame around and call people strawman. No turning and tossing sleepless nights for me so, I am sure you'll find the ignore button so please do. No, it was direct. I can be rude, and I have no problem going in that direction. You are using false arguments, you are stating that I've made claims that I have clearly not made. Purposely misstating my points in order to obfuscate my position and then arguing against those positions is rude and disrespectful. Debate my arguments or state your own but do not twist my words to fit your purposes. 2
Guest ChasingRabbits Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Yeah, the 911 records, if they exist(ed), were never brought forward. If I were BG, I would have grabbed a copy immediately after I started being hassled by the authorities and I would have done so through an attorney. Having a attorney draft a demand letter isn't cost prohibitive. But BG did not so we just have his word. That's why,IMO, this is all just a story. Nothing which could have verified the story is available or have prosaic alternate explanations (eg- helicopters over the area). Garrett made plenty of administrative-type mistakes, imo. But then, I'm used to wrangling with bureaucratic red tape, so I would have been more cynical dealing with these government agencies and would have obtained as much documentation to support my side as possible. My experience with the Rhode Island cops taught me to always get badge numbers , names, and pay attention to physical descriptions (I was 22 at the time and only in Providence for a friend's wedding). I've learned over the years to get things in writing and to follow up phone calls and to even follow them up with letters sent via certified mail. As for legally purged records, in my day job, we are allowed to legally destroy records after a period of time. So it becomes a case of records that did exist at one time but were subsequently destroyed per state and Federal law. Based on my experience with legally purged records, I can't say definitively that the absence of the 911 call records = no call was ever made.
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