A Few Words Concerning Bigfoot At The Half Century Mark

[norseman]

I dont think its premature at all when science is debating about the bipedalism of an 800 lbs plus Ape that existed at the same time humans did. If the bipedalism aspect of the species turns out to be correct, if we get lucky with a full skull or pelvis?

Doesnt that species fit the bill minus date and location?

others postulate Homo hedelbergensis could fit the bill size wise as well.......I think it would have to be shown why a Homo species would regress back to something more ape like with no evidence of fire or tool manufacture.

Many put the blame of the die off squarely on the Homo sapiens plate. We crossed into the land of plenty and slaughtered off the large mammals here. I think that is a simplistic answer but if Sasquatch has the same traits then that they supposedly do now? Such as being nocturnal, low density and intimidating they may have side stepped it. I encourage you to read NW Indian stories about them. They are not out there hunting for them for sure. There could be a hundred answers why they didnt pursue them.

But your absolutely right, no fossils in the fossil record is not good, but again we make fossil discoveries every day and Im confident our primate family tree and range will get bigger. Another zinger was the Denisovians! from just a single finger bone! Wow, cool stuff.....

Ive also seen tracks I cannot explain that pushes me toward the advocacy side but Ive never seen compelling evidence with my own eyes in over 30 years. Just the one time. Ive had some moments that were odd or strange but nothing I could put a finger on.

[Guest Crowlogic]

You are surely not telling me that if a scientist doesn't opine on or participate in something, it isn't real?  The entire history of science is one big refutation of that idea.

 

When your opinion on something says to me, "scientist hat very much taken off here," no, you aren't participating, because you are ignorant of the evidence.   And all too frequently, of the way science even works. And oh yeah that tells a real story, one the history of science tells, many times over.

But this is what I mean by 'the fetishization of science:' the blind belief that Scientists Are Just Better Than Us.  Which is almost always wrong, even as regards knowledge.  They know a bit more, generally...about one thing.  A few things, at most.

See, your problem here, Crow, is that you can't contest the mainstream, because you really don't know how to.  You can't address scientists outside your field on science's terms, and it shows over and over in your posts.

Part of the gloss that goes with being a scientist is the gloss of an open mind.  However it's a gloss that isn't always supported by the facts within discipline.  For instance I'll nod my head and listen to somebody tell me that global warming is due to a 200 year sunspot cycle not green house gasses.  I'll listen but the facts say otherwise and the facts are backed up because the models based on the facts work.  So a primateologist might listen to a bigfoot tale and if asked may say something like anything's possible.  But behind that anything's possible  is the hole in the fossil record, the entire lack of hard evidence and the circus that keeps the wheel spinning and if the scientist cracks a smile he or she is not laughing with you.

[southernyahoo]

Good make it human that way anybody can send in human hair and it can become the mysterious bigfootyized human hair. 

 

Henner F was calling the hair "like a humans" back when you "believed". This has not changed in decades, but sure, blame it on me because it's been obvious since the Sierra Sounds were recorded and Patty's walk was captured nearly fifty years ago. The walk, the talk, the tracks and the hairs are cogent and always have been.

[roguefooter]

This logic is totally delusional.  It puts a childlike faith in scientists that the history of science dashes, again and again.

 

First you complain that science isn't paying attention, but now when it comes down to presenting your evidence you want to complain that science is just going to dash everything and you can't rely on them. 

 

Excuses, excuses, more excuses. That's called denial, DWA, and the excuses are your way of dealing with it.

 

You keep telling skeptics to go read the evidence, go out in the woods, be proactive. Well I'm telling you to go to science, take your own advise, be proactive. If your evidence is solid then go out and take it to science- quit complaining already.

[Branco]

Henner F was calling the hair "like a humans" back when you "believed". This has not changed in decades, but sure, blame it on me because it's been obvious since the Sierra Sounds were recorded and Patty's walk was captured nearly fifty years ago. The walk, the talk, the tracks and the hairs are cogent and always have been.

You are right. There is no real mystery. Mankind has known about these animals for tens of thousands of years.They are a primitive member of the genus Homo. They, like Homo Sapiens, have diversity in their appearances, body shapes & sizes, hair types, eye colors, vocalizations, traits and habits. Forensic Hair experts have long classified human hair sample by three basic types:Caucasoid (European), Mongoloid (Asian) and Negroid (African). There are at least three "types" of Bigfoot. Each "type" has hair which is nearly identical to one of those basic human hair classifications. 

 

When earlier settlers actually killed some of these creatures to protect their homes and livestock, the settlers had no access to scientists nor had any interest in the "science" of Bigfoot. (The body of a young Bigfoot was for many years displayed in the court house of a very rural, deep-south county. It was only removed in modern times by a high level official in the state's fish and wildlife agency who went there, along with a field warden, to testify in a trial. That fact was confirmed by many older residents - some were previous county officials and law enforcement officers.)

 

 Generally science nor federal and state wildlife agencies  have wanted any part of the Bigfoot situation during the years. To them the declaration that the animals exist would  be an uncontrollable bomb. And they are right for many reasons. But now, because of the human DNA carried by the animals, a Presidential Memo issued by Mr. Obama, and directed at every division of of federal government and every science lab in the country that receives, directly or indirectly, funds from the federal government, is prohibited from scientific examinations or research on "humans" without their written permission. (The law provides that if a scientist(s) know that such actions have occurred, and does not report it to the feds, they will be punished.)

 

The DOI and the DOA - with help from any branch of the military they need at any time - are doing all they can to provide huge areas which are designed to try to make accidental encounters between average folks and the animals less likely. (Based on the huge increase in the number of sighting reports during the last few years, the worth of those projects are questionable.)

 

Bottom line: The tens of thousands of folks that know about these animals, and don't want them "shot and put on the slab" should be somewhat content. Those that don't know and don't care are probably better off. Those that are certain in their own minds they don't exist but want to convince those that know that they are just fooling themselves are simply SOL and will have to be content banging the keyboard.

[norseman]

Part of the gloss that goes with being a scientist is the gloss of an open mind.  However it's a gloss that isn't always supported by the facts within discipline.  For instance I'll nod my head and listen to somebody tell me that global warming is due to a 200 year sunspot cycle not green house gasses.  I'll listen but the facts say otherwise and the facts are backed up because the models based on the facts work.  So a primateologist might listen to a bigfoot tale and if asked may say something like anything's possible.  But behind that anything's possible  is the hole in the fossil record, the entire lack of hard evidence and the circus that keeps the wheel spinning and if the scientist cracks a smile he or she is not laughing with you.

So what about the primatologists and anthropologists and biologists that have stepped forward and have stated that there is some compelling evidence here? Or have had personal encounters?

Just like your analogy our understanding of the world is at its infancy......... The fact that Beringia sunk beneath the icy waters of the Bering sea long before factories were belching out CO2 gases should clue you into something.

Same goes for our understanding of the fossil record. When Patty was filmed the very thought that 3 or 4 species of Homo could have been roaming the world at the same time as little as 20k years ago was unthinkable, it would have been scientific heresy. Or the fact that Europeans and Asians carry Neanderthal genes around? Same thing.

None of this means you or I should settle for less than solid evidence. But a hole in the fossil record? Far from it.........the tree keeps getting bushier and bushier. And will continue to do so as we continue to discover new fossils, and maybe even a extant species.

[roguefooter]

Branco- can you add some actual references to your stories?

 

What court house? Which "deep south county"? What "high level official"? What "field warden"? What "many older residents"?

 

Surely these people and places have names?

 

The DOI and the DOA - with help from any branch of the military they need at any time - are doing all they can to provide huge areas which are designed to try to make accidental encounters between average folks and the animals less likely.

 

 

Having been in the military for several years I know there is no way in hell that people wouldn't blab all about it. Even with having to sign nondisclosure/clearances people will still talk. The idea that our government can keep great secrets with so many people just doesn't work.

 

Even the special ops like the Seal Teams can't seem to keep their mouths shut.

Edited July 22, 2015 by roguefooter

[norseman]

go watch the 411 doc preview. Something is being covered up.

Heck the DOD can make a trillion and a half dollars vanish............unaccounted for.

I used to think like you but Im becoming a lot more cynical with my government.

[Guest Crowlogic]

So what about the primatologists and anthropologists and biologists that have stepped forward and have stated that there is some compelling evidence here? Or have had personal encounters?

Just like your analogy our understanding of the world is at its infancy......... The fact that Beringia sunk beneath the icy waters of the Bering sea long before factories were belching out CO2 gases should clue you into something.

Same goes for our understanding of the fossil record. When Patty was filmed the very thought that 3 or 4 species of Homo could have been roaming the world at the same time as little as 20k years ago was unthinkable, it would have been scientific heresy. Or the fact that Europeans and Asians carry Neanderthal genes around? Same thing.

None of this means you or I should settle for less than solid evidence. But a hole in the fossil record? Far from it.........the tree keeps getting bushier and bushier. And will continue to do so as we continue to discover new fossils, and maybe even a extant species.

The few scientists that have stepped forward are a minuscule segment of the scientific community.  I'd be surprised if there's any more than 20 world wide.   It's like I know of a few scientists who regard  global warming as not being man made but they are in that same kind of minority that pro bigfoot scientists are in.  The numbers opposing those two groups are overwhelming.

[norseman]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18822_5-famous-scientists-dismissed-as-morons-in-their-time.html

The status quo isnt always right. Just sayin...... And with hobbits running around 10,000 years ago that werent suppose to be there the status quo countered that they were just a colony of diesesed modern human dwarfs........yah, that got smashed by facts.

So while I dont subscribe to urban dumpster diving Bigfoot stories, i still have not written off Sasquatch, Yeti, Almasty or Orang pendak. Some of these cryptids have very very GOOD fossil records and may yet still be hanging on in some remote point inthe world.

[Branco]

Branco- can you add some actual references to your stories?

 

What court house? Which "deep south county"? What "high level official"? What "field warden"? What "many older residents"?

 

Surely these people and places have names?

 

 

Having been in the military for several years I know there is no way in hell that people wouldn't blab all about it. Even with having to sign nondisclosure/clearances people will still talk. The idea that our government can keep great secrets with so many people just doesn't work.

 

Even the special ops like the Seal Teams can't seem to keep their mouths shut.

Certainly all have names and all are in my field notes. None of which would be of any real value, use or interest to people with no real interest in the subject animal. Would you pay the travel & lodging expense and the time to make the long trip to confirm that information like I did? Based on the history of your posts to others and myself; I think not.

 

One of the military personnel that had been on such a team did discuss it in confidence with myself and a friend who was at that time a LEO. If you do a thorough web search for the cooperative agreement between the two agencies and the military you can find it.. Look closer on the web and you'll find reports of how the agencies have worked together to "neutralize aggressive or dangerous animals" on DOI and DOA property. In many of those cases, the operations were observed by the residents who reported the problem, and the "problem animals" were rouge Bigfoot. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Branco

[BigTreeWalker]

Is there any accounting of the reviews by science of the evidence?  How many scientists have read the science reports on the evidence like in this link?

 

http://sasquatchresearch.net/vocalizations.html

 

Yes it is always human or not conclusively human with outliers, whether it's tracks, hairs, sounds or video's. The circumstances that one engages the evidence, and it's cogency is what proves it to people one by one, scientists and layperson alike.

 

The conclusions sure look to me like they can rule out all but human often enough to descibe the brute in human form we call bigfoot.

The link to that website has some very interesting reads on it. One thing I find very interesting is the vocalizations are human-like with outliers. Other things such as DNA... Human-like or contamination. Hair samples, human-like. And, our research on the tooth impressions in the bones, again human-like with outliers. In this case bigger than human. I find it very fascinating that the words human-like run through almost everything to do with BF. Of course the skeptics go straight to human contamination explanation and gloss over, ignore, or internationally forget the outliers part of all the evidence.

[roguefooter]

go watch the 411 doc preview. Something is being covered up.

Heck the DOD can make a trillion and a half dollars vanish............unaccounted for.

I used to think like you but Im becoming a lot more cynical with my government.

 

Covering up missing money isn't the same as covering up activities witnessed by loads of people. A bunch of regular soldiers are not going to keep quiet on something like Bigfoot.

 

Yes there are government cover ups, but they usually don't involve regular enlisted men.

[roguefooter]

Certainly all have names and all are in my field notes. None of which would be of any real value, use or interest to people with no real interest in the subject animal. Would you pay the travel & lodging expense and the time to make the long trip to confirm that information like I did? Based on the history of your posts to others and myself; I think not.

 

 

It figures that the minute someone asks for facts, all defenses and excuses go into high gear. You're the one who brought the story to us, remember? If you're not willing to verify it through your own accord then what's the point? 

 

Expecting someone to pay or travel just so you could be forthcoming with your own stories is pretty ridiculous.

Edited July 22, 2015 by roguefooter

[Branco]

So while I dont subscribe to urban dumpster diving Bigfoot stories, 

 

They do dive in urban dumpsters. Good hand prints, finger prints and and hair samples were found on the back of a food dumpster in OK only a few years ago. Dr. Fahrenbach concluded, as did I, that the hair was from a Bigfoot. 

 

It's not only dumpsters, they have been carrying off  garbage container for years. I have received and investigated such reports for many years. If we find the cans, they may have been carried as far as a mile before they rummaged through them. The critters are neat freaks; they don't make a mess. They pick out the food they want and close the lid. If the container is carried off like that, and we find it overturned and the contents scattered,  bear, coyotes or 'coons got to the container after the BF left.