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Impossible Animals Do Exist, So Why Not Bigfoot?


Guest ZeTomes

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kitakaze, on 03 June 2011 - 05:48 AM, said:

Here's a pic of a male orangutan that made me do a double-take and I thought was photoshopped at first glance...

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It looks like an american indian head of a totem, or a wood carving. I wonder why this posture - i and how it could be represented in symbolic mythology. Can you put the link?

If this pic was taken from farther away it would pass for a tree stump. Then we could chastise a poster for experiencing pareidolia.

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Guest ZeTomes

If this pic was taken from farther away it would pass for a tree stump. Then we could chastise a poster for experiencing pareidolia.

very well said, you just happened to materialize the concept of this thread in a word. To experience pareidolia or not to experience pareidolia, the razor edge of the impossible mixed with the "chains" of science and the "cataracts" of belief.

:)

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Guest ZeTomes

Common name: Comb Jellies

Technical name (Phylum): Ctenophora

etymology (Ctenophora): from the Greek ctena/χτένα (comb), phero/φέÏω (carry)

documentation: Sailors have observed ctenophora since ancient times. However, the first recorded sighting only came in 1671, made by a ship's doctor. Ernst Haeckel's Kunstformen der Natur, 1904

Profile:

Haeckel_Ctenophorae.jpg?format=jpg

Commonly known as comb jellies, are a phylum of animals that live in marine waters worldwide. Their most distinctive feature is the "combs", groups of cilia that they use for swimming, and they are the largest animals that swim by means of cilia — adults of various species range from a few millimeters to 1.5 meters (59 in) in size. Like cnidarians, their bodies consist of a mass of jelly with one layer of cells on the outside and another lining the internal cavity. In ctenophores these layers are two cells deep while those in cnidarians are only one cell deep. Ctenophores also resemble cnidarians in having a decentralized nerve net rather than a brain. Some authors combined ctenophores and cnidarians in one phylum, Coelenterata, as both groups rely on water flow through the body cavity for both digestion and respiration. Increasing awareness of the differences persuaded more recent authors to classify them in separate phyla.

Mythology:

(trying to find) Probably many sailing sightings refering to strange lights in the sea. See Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-tiki - diaries (similar experience while navigating through the Pacific in a raft).

Oh boy, you are really tiring me with your imaginative stories, now Cameron's The Abyss, what's next? Creatures that are a comblex of diferent species like a organism with its organs, except they are individual sub-organisms?... .quote...they are predatores, light producers luminouscent creatures that live in the sea... quote... their design looks like the creatures of John Camer...

C'MOOON!!...quote.

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unidentfied species

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mertensia ovum (The Deep: The Extraordinary Creatures of the Abyss)

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mertensia ovum

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Bathocyroe fosteri

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bloodybelly jelly (Lampocteis cruentiventer)

mertensia ovum

bloodybelly jelly (Lampocteis cruentiventer)

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Guest ZeTomes

Orangutan (part 1 - Aman the Great Orangutan)

the previous post by kitakaze about this astonishing creatures trigered this.

These apes are my favorites since ever. It's dificult not to feel we're facing wild cousins.

I always thought somehow some oriental ancestry had to be originated by a relative of this species. Like the idiosyncrasies on human faces I can see correlations to many great apes and macaces in every ethnicity, like a modern cauldron with all this primates inside. A genetic soup of millions of fusions as an archive of human evolution history.

Local name (malay): Maias or Mawas

Common name: Orangutan

Technical name (Genus): Pongo

Technical name (Species): Sumatran Orangutan (P. abelii), Bornean Orangutan (P. pygmaeus)

Subspecies: P. p. morio, P. p. pygmaeus, P. p. wurmbii

etymology (Maias): wild people

etymology (orangutan): is derived from the malay words orang (man) + hutan (forest) = man of the forest

discovered:

In 1627 the Dutch East India Company sent a doctor named Jacques de Bondt off to the East Indies. When remembered at all Jacques de Bondt is remembered for being the first to document the herbal remedies and indigenous medical practices of the region. But he’s also remembered as being the first person to bring the word orangutan to European consciousness. If the word orangutan comes up in conversation these days there isn’t much confusion; people are referring to a powerful kind of ape with reddish hair. It may seem quaint that the word orangutan literally means “wild man†or “forest man†since these creatures are clearly man-like. But it seems that our word for them isn’t chosen for this quaint applicability but because of a mistaken understanding. The word orangutan originates in Malay but in that language the “wild man†or “forest man†meaning was quite literal. The animals we call orangutans were called mawas in Malay. People who lived in villages were the first to get to know the visiting Europeans and those urbanized villagers are thought to have looked down their noses at the people who hung out in the jungles, calling them “wild people.â€

The Europeans must have not appreciated the distinction and thought that when villagers referred to orangutans they meant apes.

region: Indonesia, Malaysia

Profile:

Orangutans are the only exclusively Asian genus of extant great ape. The largest living arboreal animals, they have longer arms than the other, more terrestrial, great apes. They are among the most intelligent primates and use a variety of sophisticated tools, also making sleeping nests each night from branches and foliage. Their hair is typically reddish-brown, instead of the brown or black hair typical of other great apes.

Native to Indonesia and Malaysia, orangutans are currently found only in rainforests on the islands of Borneo and Sumatra, though fossils have been found in Java, the Thai-Malay Peninsula, Vietnam and Mainland China. There are only two surviving species, both of which are endangered: the Bornean Orangutan (Pongo pygmaeus) and the critically endangered Sumatran Orangutan (Pongo abelii). The subfamily Ponginae also includes the extinct genera Gigantopithecus and Sivapithecus.

myths:

Local Indonesian mythology has it that orangutans actually have the ability to speak, but choose not to, fearing they would be forced to work if were they ever caught. Legends aside, even if this were the case, who could blame them? (I really would like to read detailed local mythology about them, any link to it?)

particularities: Orangutans are extremely intelligent creatures who clearly have the ability to reason and think. Their similarity to us is uncanny. Baby orangutans cry when they’re hungry, whimper when they’re hurt and smile at their mothers. They express emotions just like we do: joy, fear, anger, surprise…. it’s all there. If you take a few minutes and watch an orangutan, you’ll swear they’re just like us. And they kind of are….

...words for what? It's obviously Muhammad Ali or David Hasselhoff dressing Patterson's suit. Great Fx but you're dealing with an expert here. Pff

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Great male ape Aman, 19 years old, When he arrived Aman was blind due to cataracts in both eyes which are believed to be caused from him chewing electrical cables in the past and he had to feel his way around his enclosure.

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Aman

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It was a tense time but incredibly awe inspiring. At first Aman was moving about as Dr Stegmann was trying to insert a line into Aman's arm to give him steady dosage of drugs, That freaked people out somewhat as a large male orangutan started to wake up surrounded by the operating team and the press core, but they soon got him to sleep and then Dr Izak started the operation itself. The succesful operation means Aman now has full sight and enjoys making the most of it.

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Orangutan (part 2)

the previous post by kitakaze about this astonishing creatures trigered this.

These apes are my favorites since ever. It's dificult not to feel we're facing wild cousins.

I always thought somehow some oriental ancestry had to be originated by a relative of this species. Like the idiosyncrasies on human faces I can see correlations to many great apes and macaces in every ethnicity, like a modern cauldron with all this primates inside. A genetic soup of millions of fusions as an archive of human evolution history.

post-1455-082818800 1307192134_thumb.jpg

orangutan-london-zoo-051609-sw.jpg

IMG_5725.JPG

site: SO as you see, i had a nervous-timid smile plastered in my face. I was just a metre away from that orange creature and you should have felt how scared i was. He was ENORMOUSE.~ Well, Mom of course, jumped at the chance and began snapping photos. If i were the orangutan, i would feel scared to see a couple of weird aliens staring at him and using some weird gadget to take his pictures. Fortunately, he is a good model. Expert at posing!

Bright-Eyes,-Borneo-Orangutan.jpg

Bornean Orangutan (Pongo pygmaeus)

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Orangutan_GIANT.jpg

Because of rapid rainforest loss in these sensitive areas, experts estimate that between 50 and 60 endangered orangutans perish each week, as their habits are destroyed or they are killed by workers. Roughly two football fields worth of rainforests are felled every minute by palm oil plantations, bellowing out stored carbon.

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Rochale, a 41-year-old Sumatran Orangutan holds her newly born baby at the Ramat Gan Safari park near Tel Aviv on August 12, 2010.AFP PHOTO/MENAHEM KAHANA (Photo credit should read MENAHEM KAHANA/AFP/Getty Images)

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PS: I'm sorry for the huge size of the images, but these folks deserve serious attention

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Japanese spider crab

link

It has the largest leg span of any arthropod, reaching up to 3.8 metres (12 ft 6 in) and weighing up to 41 pounds (19 kg).

Macrocheira_kaempferi.jpg

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Guest Lesmore

"....Impossible Animals Do Exist, So Why Not Bigfoot? "

Reviewing the premise of your thread....weird , uncommon, unusual animals exist....therefore why not Bigfoot ?

I can't buy that. An animal either exists or it doesn't.

Bigfoot has been rumored to exist in many countries....but never has one been caught or found...either dead or alive.

Just fleeting glances of something...who really knows what...for sure.

I've been following the BF deal, now for over 40 years....and my belief has gone from I think BF exists.... to possibly....to...after 40 + years let's see some convincing evidence before accept that BF exists.

So far..... no convincing evidence, IMO and philosophically phrasing statement..if 'something'...exists...than why not BF ...doesn't work for me .

Edited by Lesmore
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Guest ZeTomes

Reviewing the premise of your thread....weird , uncommon, unusual animals exist....therefore why not Bigfoot ?

I can't buy that. An animal either exists or it doesn't.

So far..... no convincing evidence, IMO and philosophically phrasing statement..if 'something'...exists...than why not BF ...doesn't work for me .

First you have to take a better look at the first post to really understand what I'm saying. Neither this is an argument pro or contra bigfoot. It's a question of balance of hypothesis not at all an attempt to prove anything. If you take literally what is writen I presume you put a religious conotation to bigfoot matters which is the worst possible kind of approach.

This thread means there is a line between what is considered impossible but in fact exists, and the blindly approach to something imagined being possible as factual. Those two variables compose the difference between myths and reality and the sources of truth in exageration.

Second there isn't one bigfoot, there are several geographical areas passive of hiding an unknown primate species with several mythological or sociological local names associated to, and there are percentages of probability of really existing something in diferent geographical areas, composed with the variable of urban myths, hoaxes, economy, media and sensacionalism.

Third, new primate species findings continue to surprise as Myanmar snub-nosed monkey and Bili Ape, this doesn't prove at all anything but states that finding an unknown large primate belonging to great apes is an hypothesis that can't be discarded.

Many people that don't belong to the respectively fields of biology might not have the notion that there are in fact many weird creatures out there, if it wasn't the case there wouldn't occur such phenomenas concerning faithful belief around sensasionalistic claims nor so well accepted if ignorance wasn't present.

The binary permisse of existing or not existing is just not enought to characterize this kind of anthropological and sociolgical phenomena. But I'm pretty sure if you spent 40 years searching for bigfoot, there's really something more important hiden in yourself. Here you can find hypothetical IFs of other dimensions: the past - Imagine yourself living in the time where Gorillas were considered fiction and people were discussing the odds of such creature being true.

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Guest Lesmore

First you have to take a better look at the first post to really understand what I'm saying. Neither this is an argument pro or contra bigfoot. It's a question of balance of hypothesis not at all an attempt to prove anything. If you take literally what is writen I presume you put a religious conotation to bigfoot matters which is the worst possible kind of approach. You couldn't be more wrong..there is nothing religious about me or anything I write. You assume to much and there is a danger in assumptions.

This thread means there is a line between what is considered impossible but in fact exists, and the blindly approach to something imagined being possible as factual. Those two variables compose the difference between myths and reality and the sources of truth in exageration.

You don't know it exists....you assume.

Second there isn't one bigfoot, there are several geographical areas passive of hiding an unknown primate species with several mythological or sociological local names associated to, and there are percentages of probability of really existing something in diferent geographical areas, composed with the variable of urban myths, hoaxes, economy, media and sensacionalism.

Again you assume....there is no real, concrete evidence whether BF exists anywhere...whether you are talking about Oregon, Manitoba or Nepal...to give some geographical examples.

Third, new primate species findings continue to surprise as Myanmar snub-nosed monkey and Bili Ape, this doesn't prove at all anything but states that finding an unknown large primate belonging to great apes is an hypothesis that can't be discarded.

Many people that don't belong to the respectively fields of biology might not have the notion that there are in fact many weird creatures out there, if it wasn't the case there wouldn't occur such phenomenas concerning faithful belief around sensasionalistic claims nor so well accepted if ignorance wasn't present.See...immediate...above.

The binary permisse of existing or not existing is just not enought to characterize this kind of anthropological and sociolgical phenomena. But I'm pretty sure if you spent 40 years searching for bigfoot, there's really something more important hiden in yourself. Here you can find hypothetical IFs of other dimensions: the past - Imagine yourself living in the time where Gorillas were considered fiction and people were discussing the odds of such creature being true.

Yes.....yes...we all know about the Mountain Gorilla not 'discovered. until the 1800's, etc.....but the world has progressed very much so since then...still no BF. As far as something 'hidden' in me....not sure what that would be. :D

Anyways the debate is most of the fun. I've enjoyed your thread and contributions. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on some points...but that's all right.

Les

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Guest ZeTomes

Yes.....yes...we all know about the Mountain Gorilla not 'discovered. until the 1800's, etc.....but the world has progressed very much so since then...still no BF. As far as something 'hidden' in me....not sure what that would be. :D

Anyways the debate is most of the fun. I've enjoyed your thread and contributions. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on some points...but that's all right.

Les

I invite you Les, to contribute with one of your impossible creatures :)

I'm almost done with my next one

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Guest ZeTomes

Saccopharyngiformes (part 1: bobtail snipe eels)

is an order of unusual ray-finned fish superficially similar to eels, but with many internal differences.

Most of the fish in this order are deep-sea types known from only a handful of specimens such as the Umbrella Mouth Gulper Eel.

Saccopharyngiformes are also bioluminescent in several species.

Some, such as the swallowers, can live as deep as 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in the ocean, well into the aphotic zone... (read more)

Eurypharynx.jpg

Eurypharynx pelecanoides

remaks (saccopharyngiformes): Highly aberrant fishes, lacking symplectic bone, opercular bones, branchiostegal rays, scales, pelvic fins, ribs, pyloric caeca, and swim bladder; caudal fin absent or rudimentary; gill openings ventral; dorsal and anal fins long; jaws and hyomandibular greatly elongate, attached to neurocranium by only one condyle; leptocephalous larvae deep-bodied with myomeres V-shaped and not W-shaped. Like anguilliforms, they may spawn once and die.

etymology (saccopharyngiformes): Latin, saccus = sack + Greek, pharyngx = pharynx + Greek, morphe = shape.

Part 1: Bobtail Snipe Eels

Common name: bobtail snipe eels

Technical name (familly): Cyematidae

etymology (cyematidae): Greek, kyema, -atos = pregnancy

species (genus): Cyema atrum / Neocyema erythrosoma

region: Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans.

remaks (cyematidae): Relatively short body and compressed. No lateral line pores. Eye small to vestigial. Maxillae present. Gill arches very small. Caudal fin present, tip of tail blunt. Maximum length about 15 cm.

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Cyema atrum

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Neocyema erythrosoma

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Neocyema erythrosoma

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Guest RayG

But none of these animals are unverified. What about the impossible ones that have never been captured, classified, verified, and studied?

Critters like the Gorgon, the Minotaur, the Werewolf, the Unicorn, the Chupacabra, the Centaur, the Hippogriff, the Mermaid, the Manticore, or the Naga.

gotbigfoot002.jpg

RayG

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Guest ZeTomes

But none of these animals are unverified. What about the impossible ones that have never been captured, classified, verified, and studied?

Critters like the Gorgon, the Minotaur, the Werewolf, the Unicorn, the Chupacabra, the Centaur, the Hippogriff, the Mermaid, the Manticore, or the Naga.

gotbigfoot002.jpg

RayG

Well, that ones we can make it on another thread. The origin of myths. But I can tell you some for starting: cyclopes -> skull of (mamute or elephant) / unicorn ->narval / mermaid ->manatim / chupacabra -> movie species + deseased coyote / minotaur - huge bulls of minoic cultures...

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Saccopharyngiformes (part 2: Pelican eels)

is an order of unusual ray-finned fish superficially similar to eels, but with many internal differences.

Most of the fish in this order are deep-sea types known from only a handful of specimens such as the Umbrella Mouth Gulper Eel.

Saccopharyngiformes are also bioluminescent in several species.

Some, such as the swallowers, can live as deep as 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in the ocean, well into the aphotic zone... (read more)

Eurypharynx.jpg

Eurypharynx pelecanoides

remaks (saccopharyngiformes): Highly aberrant fishes, lacking symplectic bone, opercular bones, branchiostegal rays, scales, pelvic fins, ribs, pyloric caeca, and swim bladder; caudal fin absent or rudimentary; gill openings ventral; dorsal and anal fins long; jaws and hyomandibular greatly elongate, attached to neurocranium by only one condyle; leptocephalous larvae deep-bodied with myomeres V-shaped and not W-shaped. Like anguilliforms, they may spawn once and die.

etymology (saccopharyngiformes): Latin, saccus = sack + Greek, pharyngx = pharynx + Greek, morphe = shape.

Part 2: Pelican Eels

The pelican eel, or Eurypharynx pelecanoides, is a deep-sea fish rarely seen by humans, though the creatures are occasionally caught in fishing nets. It is an eel-like fish, the only known member of the genus Eurypharynx and the family Eurypharyngidae. It belongs to the order Saccopharyngiformes which is closely related to the true eels in Anguilliformes. It is also sometimes referred to as the umbrella mouth gulper. The specific epithet pelecanoides refers to the pelican, because the large mouth is reminiscent of that of the bird. The fish is also known by the alternative scientific names Gastrostomus pacificus, Macropharynx longicaudatus, Gastrostomus bairdii, Eurypharynx richardi and Leptocephalus pseudolatissimus.

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Eurypharynx pelecanoides

Common name: gulpers / pelican eels

Technical name (familly): Eurypharyngidae

etymology (eurypharyngidae): Greek, eu = good + Greek, pharyngx = pharynx

species (genus): Eurypharynx pelecanoides

region: Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans.

remaks (eurypharyngidae): Gill openings small, farther from snout tip than from anus. Gill arches 5. Visceral clefts 6. Mouth extremely large. Jaws teeth minute. Minute pectoral fins.

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