Missing 411

[Arvedis]

Oh no! Condolences to the Paulides family.

 

I'm curious now just how gullible a researcher he was in his early days. I still don't think he would venture into questionable theories.  The human hybrid theory has been around longer than any of us have been alive so that's not a surprise if that is what being provided here. That's easy speculation. Maybe I misunderstood what the claim is.

 

And I'm not looking forward to skimming through 4+ hours of coast to coast casts to hear it from him. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Arvedis

[BlackRockBigfoot]

32 minutes ago, MIB said:

A bit off topic, maybe.   From twitter, @canammissing (ie David Paulides)

 

On Sunday, my son, Ben lost his battle with mental illness. He was the director of Missing 411, a 4 yr starter on Miami Oh hockey team. I’m a broken person, I miss him beyond words. Please pray for Ben’s soul, he’s on the journey to heaven.

 

A parent's worst nightmare.  

That's terrible.  

1 minute ago, Arvedis said:

Oh no! Condolences to the Paulides family.

 

I'm curious now just how gullible a researcher he was in his early days. I still don't think he would venture into questionable theories.  The human hybrid theory has been around longer than any of us have been alive so that's not a surprise if that is what being provided here. That's easy speculation. Maybe I misunderstood what the claim is.

 

And I'm not looking forward to skimming through 4+ hours of coast to coast casts to hear it from him. 

If it is the interview that I think it is, if I come across it I will send you a link.

[wiiawiwb]

1 hour ago, MIB said:

A bit off topic, maybe.   From twitter, @canammissing (ie David Paulides)

 

On Sunday, my son, Ben lost his battle with mental illness. He was the director of Missing 411, a 4 yr starter on Miami Oh hockey team. I’m a broken person, I miss him beyond words. Please pray for Ben’s soul, he’s on the journey to heaven.

 

A parent's worst nightmare.  

 

There is no loss like that of a loved one, particularly a child. God rest his soul.

[Arvedis]

4 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

If it is the interview that I think it is, if I come across it I will send you a link.

 

If I had to guess, C2C is pretty good at filling copyright claims with YT since their shows are not all up there. They want folks to subscribe to their site. It's a business and since it has been a while paying attention to C2C casts, I am going to subscribe and do some catching up. It's only $7 a month but of course, yet another monthly cost that adds up.

[Trogluddite]

Made it through page 12 as I try to re-engage and had some random thoughts.  The most important one may be that MIB's posts are making me want to avoid going into the woods! 

 

As to the Dennis Martin case, I would note that the Wikipedia entry on the disappearance of Dennis Martin (as it stands tonight) says that the Key Family saw “an unkempt, rough looking man” who they saw get into a white car.  That is an important distinction from seeing "a man covered in hair" and not mentioning him entering a car.  I'm a first-hand account type of person so unless I see a police report or a contemporaneous newspaper report (or some indication that whomever is making the quote relied on such documents), I'm not either description much weight.  Footnote 17 in the Wikipedia article gives a link to a case study of the Dennis Martin case for those who are interested.  It mentions that some people were suspects, but they were other hikers at the campsite at that time.

A few people mentioned dogs failing to find missing people.   Dogs can track through general, non-target specific scent and SWWASAS is correct in that cadaver dogs are trained to alert to the scent of decaying flesh.  I flanked for a dog team on a search and I do not recall the handlers having any articles of clothing for the missing individual.  They also told me that while it looks great in the movies, going into the water doesn’t necessarily destroy the scent although (if I recall correctly) rapidly moving water dissipates it more quickly.  So, depending on when the dog is deployed (how long after the person is missing) moving water (or heavy rains) might effectively disperse (or destroy) the scent.

I am hoping I can get back to posting semi-regularly here.  I've missed it.

[Trogluddite]

Just a few more thoughts, pulling quotes from the last twelve pages.

"A Green Beret presence for a missing child is unprecedented."

This is why I like primary sources – the Wikipedia article on the Dennis Martin disappearance has several links to contemporaneous newspaper articles on this case and the Case Study at fn 17 talks about the Green Berets as well.  The SF Soldiers were already in the area for training.  Could have been a Q course class (don’t know where they did those in the 60s) or it could have been a Group just training in the deep woods, but it does not appear that they were sent there to look for DM.  They were there, and in an on-the-spot decision, decided to train by searching from what I can see in those reports.  Also, I would note that several things in the Mysterious Universe article sound to me like someone w/no military experience trying to sound like they were in the military.

"Underestimating hypothermia is a dangerous thing,"

 

The Army lost several Soldiers during Ranger training to hypothermia - in Florida - in 40-50 degree weather back in the early-to-mid 1990s.  https://www.army.mil/article/88450/Rangers_remember_tragic_training_accident/

"lack of preparation and foolhardy/reckless/stupid behavior probably is the basic reason behind 80%+ of all search and rescue operations."

 and

mental illness and/or despondency is more and more of an issue.  I would say it figured in most of the recent searches I’ve been on or been on call for. 

 

[VAfooter]

1 hour ago, Trogluddite said:

The SF Soldiers were already in the area for training. 

 

That is my understanding too. Just a lucky circumstance that was able to add a few more experienced searchers to the task. 

[BlackRockBigfoot]

2 hours ago, VAfooter said:

 

That is my understanding too. Just a lucky circumstance that was able to add a few more experienced searchers to the task. 

They do mountain and unconventional warfare training nearby in Pisgah National Forest.  

 

From what I understand it is very unusual, but not completely unheard of, for Special Forces to be involved in a domestic search.  I seem to recall seeing another missing persons case that mentioned something about Green Berets being involved in a search for an unmarked grave.  Iirc, it was linked in another discussion about the Dennis Martin case on another site. 

 

I have seen a couple of stories state that one of the Martin's neighbors with a bit of political clout called a state senator to request the Army's assistance.

 

Again, my inner conspiracy nut will say that is a convenient cover story to explain the military's presence.  

[hiflier]

21 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Again, my inner conspiracy nut will say that is a convenient cover story to explain the military's presence.

 

Feeding that nut is pretty easy since there have been sightings in Pisgah NF.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

2 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Feeding that nut is pretty easy since there have been sightings in Pisgah NF.

We've had activity and found prints in a couple areas in Pisgah.  One area a few miles from the Mountains to the Sea trail has a ton of exposed white rock on the peak... almost like milky quartz.  We have heard possible vocalizations and found possible prints around there. 

 

Interesting area.  

[hiflier]

Careful there, you may end up finding yourself on Finding Bigfoot  

[Arvedis]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:26 AM, hiflier said:

Careful there, you may end up finding yourself on Finding Bigfoot  

 

If I had the time, money, and editing skills, putting together a BFF reality show would be an instant winner. There are at least 10 quality field researchers here to pull together a rotating series of plots. The trick is turning hundreds of hours of footage into stories an audience would find interesting. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Arvedis

[SWWASAS]

What?   You mean that the whole US does not adore watching MM stumble around in the dark?   

[cromag]

I've read all of the Missing 411 books, some of them several times. Say what you will about Paulides, there are some cases he presents that probably have pretty mundane explanations. But in every book, there are cases that are extraordinarily strange, and defy any kind of logical explanation.

Many cases where the person disappears within feet of their fellow companions. Without a sound, and sometimes within seconds of being seen by companions. Never any sign of struggle either. They are simply there one second and gone the next.

Many, many times toddlers that have gone missing in very inclement weather are found, often days later with perfectly clean, dry clothes. In one case, the toddler was found on a small island in the middle of a pond during a rainstorm. Clothes were perfectly dry, as if the toddler was just placed there before the search party arrived. These toddlers are typically found in good physical shape as well, no dehydration, hypothermia, etc. 

Also, toddlers and very small children are sometimes found miles away from where they originally disappeared. Often times in very remote areas where there are no roads. I think in one case, the kid was a 2 year old that was found 20 something miles away within 9 hours in a very remote area. The area where he disappeared was a remote campsite with just his family. No cars where seen coming or going when he vanished.

Unfortunately, many people that go missing are found deceased as well. Strange thing is, it's usually in a very conspicuous place that has already been searched, usually many times. One of the more unsettling cases in that regard, was a small child went missing. They set up a command center for the search and rescue people to coordinate their efforts. The command center was near the main pathway into the park, this pathway had people using it constantly all day, night and day for several days. One day they find a large tree had been pushed over on the pathway within close proximity to the command center, and the body of the child they were searching for was lying on the tree. No one at the command center  heard it fall. No cause of death could be determined. 

In just about every case where they find a deceased person, they are unable to find a cause of death. 

Removal of clothing is very common. In some instances the clothes are found neatly folded. One person had left their clothes very neatly folded on top of a boulder in the middle of a stream. I know hypothermia can cause a person to remove their clothes, but not all the cases occur in cold weather. If no clothing is removed, almost 100% of them are missing their shoes at least. 

Those that are found alive, have no recollection of where they were, or what happened.

Here's a few more interesting cases highlights:

-Toddler goes missing, is found in a cave in the middle of a sheer cliff face. Took professional climbers to reach him.

-A kid goes out in his back yard to play. Yard backs up to a river, which was dry at the time. Mom hears kid screaming, the sound of his scream  starts moving away from the house down the dry riverbed at a very rapid pace, as if he were being carried away by something extremely fast. Kid is never found.

- Family parks their RV in the middle of a field. The 2 parents are nearby, their 2 kids and dog are in the RV. They hear a strange scream, run to the RV and one of the kids is missing. The other kid and dog are sleeping, and they had the RV in full line of sight, with wide open field around it.

-Man goes missing from Michigan, is found years later in Arizona. He's wearing clothes that aren't his and has strange maps in his pockets, he has no recollection of where he was. Paulides offered to have him hypnotically regressed and he declined.

-Guy working a road clean up crew in Georgia suddenly vanishes. They find his body in some bushes not too far on the other side of the fence. From what they could determine, looked like something snatched him  and pulled him through a bard wire fence horizontally with such force it yanked him out of of his boots and left horizontal tears in his clothing.

Just to mention a few...

[Trooper1410]

There have been some intriguing news reports of very young children missing and found the next day recently.  You all are probably aware of the three year old who went missing overnight in West Virginia in very cold weather.  He was found the following morning under some brush, IN AN AREA THAT HAD BEEN THOROUGHLY SEARCHED the night before.  A searcher heard a "whistle", went to the area and, voila, there was the youngster, in very good shape despite cold temperatures.  He said a bear stayed with him and kept him warm!   Another youngster was found on a ledge after an all-night search.  Crazy stuff.