Why can't we find and study Bigfoot?

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, SWWASAS said:

But it just occurred to me that bigfoot will only be accessed when it wants that to happen.   That is the only meaningful way to change the dynamic between mankind and them.  They have to want contact for it to happen.     There has to be something in it for them.

 

I don't understand this at all. What the heck am I missing? We can MAKE discovery happen without creating reasons for why it doesn't happen. We've been doing that ever since I stepped onto this Forum. Giving REASONS for our failure. It's something I cannot, and could never, accept. Making the reasons be the fault of the Bigfoot and not US? Stopping at that, and just throwing our hands up, is a great way to put everyone back to sleep. We simply cannot go there anymore and there's no good reason to.

 

I'm harping, but there's no choice. The Bigfoot may decide to consciously and habitually avoid detection but it has NO choice when it comes to leaving its DNA in the environment. And I will continue to harp on this until people get it, and stop ignoring, dismissing, not discussing, or otherwise keeping the subject marginalized and out of the BFF's wheelhouse. Want discovery? Then get discovery. There's no more excuses for spinning up dialogues full of excuses for why zero progress has been made. And worse? Still blaming it all on the Bigfoots. We don't need the Bigfoots, we don't need their footprints or trackways, we don't need their stick structures, we don't need their hair, or anything else. We can get their DNA from their habitat and they don't even have to be there. Not any more. Period.

 

If anyone wanted to contact their state biologist and ask these two question you may be surprised at the response"

 

1) Can a fluorescense protocol be set up to detect either the genes or proteins of the Human NOTCH@NL A, B, or C gene variations?

 

2)Could it be used along with a protocol for detecting other mammals in the environment as a way to determine if suspected Human contamination in a sample is really from a Human?
 

Sorry, I have to ask this. What if I was your state Fish & Wildlife biologist, or even a federal biologist saying this very same thing. Would it make a difference?

 

Honest answers only please.

 

(....harp over)  

Edited February 7, 2020 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

13 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

I don't understand this at all. What the heck am I missing? We can MAKE discovery happen without creating reasons for why it doesn't happen. We've been doing that ever since I stepped onto this Forum. Giving REASONS for our failure. It's something I cannot, and could never, accept. Making the reasons be the fault of the Bigfoot and not US? Stopping at that, and just throwing our hands up, is a great way to put everyone back to sleep. We simply cannot go there anymore and there's no good reason to.

 

I'm harping, but there's no choice. The Bigfoot may decide to consciously and habitually avoid detection but it has NO choice when it comes to leaving its DNA in the environment. And I will continue to harp on this until people get it, and stop ignoring, dismissing, not discussing, or otherwise keeping the subject marginalized and out of the BFF's wheelhouse. Want discovery? Then get discovery. There's no more excuses for spinning up dialogues full of excuses for why zero progress has been made. And worse? Still blaming it all on the Bigfoots. We don't need the Bigfoots, we don't need their footprints or trackways, we don't need their stick structures, we don't need their hair, or anything else. We can get their DNA from their habitat and they don't even have to be there. Not any more. Period.

 

Sorry, I have to ask this. What if I was your state Fish & Wildlife biologist, or even a federal biologist saying this very same thing. Would it make a difference?

 

Honest answers only please.

 

(....harp over)  

Do you really think at this point that science is going to accept BF as a North America species on DNA evidence alone?    The roadblock seems to be the contamination issue.   The only way to get around that roadblock is a chunk of BF, whole or part,  in a DNA lab.    From that chunk,   contamination issues can be reduced or eliminated, and independent verification performed.     E-DNA is just not going to work in a case where the majority of scientists do not believe something could exist.   I may be wrong but over and over we hear about contamination when DNA is tested.    

[hiflier]

15 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Do you really think at this point that science is going to accept BF as a North America species on DNA evidence alone?    The roadblock seems to be the contamination issue.   The only way to get around that roadblock is a chunk of BF, whole or part,  in a DNA lab.    From that chunk,   contamination issues can be reduced or eliminated, and independent verification performed.     E-DNA is just not going to work in a case where the majority of scientists do not believe something could exist.   I may be wrong but over and over we hear about contamination when DNA is tested.

 

I edited in two questions in my previous post. In neither one did I mention Bigfoot. I did that because a scientist doesn't have to accept Bigfoot. It doesn't need to part of the dialogue. It's why one can even HAVE the dialogue or expect a response. And there WILL be a response, there's no reason not to get one. The two questions are real-world inquiries regarding Human contamination coming in from field samples and the possibility of fluorescing Human-specific genes that SHOULD SHOW UP.

 

If Human contamination is suspected but there are no fluorescent markers then what looks like "Human" contamination is anything but!

 

15 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Do you really think at this point that science is going to accept BF as a North America species on DNA evidence alone?

 

YES! Because science will get more samples and repeat the test many times over to verify the sample. If it keeps coming back the same then as scientists they will have no choice but to accept the hard evidence.

 

Anyone can write to a biologist and ask those two questions.

Edited February 7, 2020 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

I think you give science way to much credit for logic and purity.    

[hiflier]

Okay, just forget the whole thing and chalk it up as a huge waste of time. Sorry for ever bringing up such a ridiculously stupid idea. Tell you what. You and everyone stay with what you're doing since it's all been so successful. Your dialogue will serve to help others to see that what I've been saying is pretty worthless anyway. Thank you for setting me and everyone straight. Can't express how much I appreciate it. Okay, so science and logic doesn't mix, got it.

Edited February 7, 2020 by hiflier

[georgerm]

2 hours ago, georgerm said:

 

Since we are not finding bigfoot except for a few blob squatches, are we jumping on the 'woo excuse' as the easy answer? Bigfoot mindspeaking is possible but is nearly impossible to prove with our present degree of 'tin hat technology'. There are so many other reasons for our lack of quickly locating families of bigfoots. For example, cougars are very rare and there are about 6000 that reside in Oregon according to the Oregon Dept. of Fish and Wildlife. Now to add to their elusiveness, they hunt all night. Bob Cats are night hunters  and so are black bears. Deer are dawn and dusk feeders and some feed all night. Racoons are night dwellers. Bigfoot feed on these animals so they must hunt mostly at night and sometimes at dawn and later at dusk. This fact makes them really hard to see. As thermal gear surpasses tin hat technology,  finding bigfoot will advance.    

 

SWWASAS     They might want those things and others but how do we tell them we can make them available?      Somehow we have to make contact and communicate if they are capable of that.     I would hate to think that it will take some sort of chance counter with a wounded bigfoot in need of help for that to happen.    That might be another 60 years or never.  Anyone have any ideas?  

 

We need to build trust and to stop over development of the land. They live off the land and can see its destruction since they are not stupid.   

 

If the eDNA aspects have been exhausted are there any comments on the discussion above. We can come back to the eDNA later as being a great way to find and prove bgifoots existance.

[Twist]

Hey, I'm all for a new approach and hell, I'd be happy to be wrong and find out your way works, just trying to understand how they would have an understanding of things like diet or medicine. I would not be the least bit surprised that a BF could figure out that chewing on a ginger root made its stomach better or maybe a certain berry helps with something else but the concept of medicine or diet is a bit higher of a concept that I believe they would possess.  Just my opinion and speculation, as always I'm open to something changing my way of thinking.

[SWWASAS]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

Okay, just forget the whole thing and chalk it up as a huge waste of time. Sorry for ever bringing up such a ridiculously stupid idea. Tell you what. You and everyone stay with what you're doing since it's all been so successful. Your dialogue will serve to help others to see that what I've been saying is pretty worthless anyway. Thank you for setting me and everyone straight. Can't express how much I appreciate it. Okay, so science and logic doesn't mix, got it.

Sounds like you just want to take your football and go home?  I just stated that what has been done for over 50 years has not been successful.   What you expect is for a bunch of scientists to admit they have been wrong based solely on E-DNA which is a new technology.      Most likely,   many scientists do not even understand it.      Changing minds is not going to happen easily.   My use of the word purity rarely applies to scientists because they all have their egos,   agendas,  and enemies that are all to eager to cut them off at the knees if they are wrong about something.    If logic was used,   it points to something creating all the witness sighting reports and Meldrums footprint collection.   It is far easier for them to continue to deny existence than risk their reputations by stating it is even possible.   Nothing we say will change how things work.  I dare say unless you have a PHD, it is hard to even get anyone to listen.    Most of us do not and are very easy to dismissed as bunch of know nothing bumkins.    

Edited February 7, 2020 by SWWASAS

[Huntster]

3 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

........a major portion of our forum members and others who have been hunting them that are not in the forum do not even give them credit for having language.    They cannot conceive of a big dumb ape being able to speak........

 

I am quite confident they have a language, but I am equally confident that communicating with them in their language would require at least a pair of them and years of study in order just to understand it, let alone speak it.

[SWWASAS]

You are right because we have not had much face to face contact.   I think it more likely given their exposure to humans, that they have picked up some English.   They have been in the bushes listening to us for hundreds of years.  If some of the habituation reports I have read are true,   some can speak it fairly well.  At least at the pigeon English level. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by SWWASAS

[NatFoot]

Someone get to Colorado and shoot the 12 footer already.

[georgerm]

2 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

You are right because we have not had much face to face contact.   I think it more likely given their exposure to humans, that they have picked up some English.   They have been in the bushes listening to us for hundreds of years.  If some of the habituation reports I have read are true,   some can speak it fairly well.  At least at the pigeon English level. 

 

They have been shown to have a language. I would like to read this habituation report. How does bigfoot's language make them harder for us to find and study them?  We can't find and study them to know about their language or as Twist said, the herbs they use. We a very smart country of people, yet we can't find and study this primate...……………………   it's pathetic. 

[DeWalt]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:47 AM, vinchyfoot said:

 

I'm not singling them out, the Top Level of the BFRO is nothing but a business and with profit as their chief motive everything they say and do should be scrutinized

 

If you're talking about the Youtube arena, I think the Howtohunt guy is likely the closet contender that sort of thing. He at least definitely looks at things through a Hunter's scope so to speak.

I think for any hunter and remote area outdoors men is this. You are dealing with an unknown. Not like behavior you know to expect from other apex predators you are familiar with. The animal is huge. Even by bear standards. Is there more than one? Will others retaliate if you were to kill one? I think from a safety standpoint in back country i would not shoot unless it was purely defensive.

[Oonjerah]

 

georgerm: "We a very smart country of people, yet we can't find and study this primate...   it's pathetic." 

It kind of boggles my mind, when I consider the evidence. 

   There was a lot of it even before the PGF. I still think whenever Mt. St. Helens erupted, BF left a lot of

bodies up there. New evidence surfaces, yet doesn't get much attention. 

  Me: Who would cover it up?
Reply, "The government."
  Me: But why? What's the point of it? I believe they're covering it up. But I can make no sense of it. Are they planning to covertly wipe
them all out? 

 

[hiflier]

5 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

What you expect is for a bunch of scientists to admit they have been wrong based solely on E-DNA which is a new technology.      Most likely,   many scientists do not even understand it.      Changing minds is not going to happen easily.   My use of the word purity rarely applies to scientists because they all have their egos,   agendas,  and enemies that are all to eager to cut them off at the knees if they are wrong about something.    If logic was used,   it points to something creating all the witness sighting reports and Meldrums footprint collection.   It is far easier for them to continue to deny existence than risk their reputations by stating it is even possible.   Nothing we say will change how things work.  I dare say unless you have a PHD, it is hard to even get anyone to listen.    Most of us do not and are very easy to dismissed as bunch of know nothing bumkins.

 

That all sounds like pretty archaic thinking compared to what I've been experiencing. Look, I've had a lot of doors close. It's going to happen. But I didn't quit. And e-DNA is twenty years old, lots of scientists understand it. The trick is that WE should understand it as well, because it's not going to go away like some scientific fad of some kind. It's here to stay, and there's already tens of thousands it not hundreds of thousands of pages on the many, many, different kinds of studies and applications that have been used so far. I won't take a defeatist attitude when it comes to connecting with science people. I needed to go to them on their terms, using their language. Period. It's like embedding oneself into another country and culture: Learn the culture, learn the language. You won't be perfect at it but you will earn respect for working at it.  

 

Look what doing? Finding different species of NEMETODES IN THE SOIL for petesakes. Big eels in Loch Ness. New birds. E-DNA is being used and tried everywhere. DNA can be had from two-day-old fingerprints, animal tracks in snow. e-DNA is here to stay and one shouldn't be very surprised at who understands it: USFS, F&W, ACOE, BLM, ecologists, biologists, and universities everywhere. Science understands e-DNA in a very large, very widespread and active way. The only ones not changing with the times are those danged Bigfoot researchers