Backdoc Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 Guys I’ll continue to read your posts and consider your viewpoints on this JFK thing. I just won’t be responding anymore on the JFK thing specifically but will still welcome your postings on JFK as I do like them and have a strong interest in it. So please keep it coming. Just please understand my not responding is not because I don’t have a response (and maybe a darn good one). It’s just clear it’s best if I leave it at that. Respond away though as I will be reading it. It’s interesting.
Huntster Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Backdoc said: .......there is no Bigfoot conspiracy other than if Bigfoot exists it is just a rare near extinct animal. The patterson film points to a real creature and some eyewitness reports are compelling. Unless the PGF can be shown to be a hoax, it strongly supports the PGF is not a hoax. I agree. Yet, you have also agreed that if sasquatches exist, government has known it. So there is some sort of disconnect on the existence question, no?
Backdoc Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Huntster said: I agree. Yet, you have also agreed that if sasquatches exist, government has known it. So there is some sort of disconnect on the existence question, no? why would the government know if they “bigfoot” exist? We know some animals existED. Some that existED might still exist today. (Like the Ivory billed woodpecker). Now there are some things like Bigfoot that have been reported but are not proven to have ever existED. thus the are considered not to exist until proof is offered. Some may see it as unlikely while others see it as promising. Others still feel they have seen enough declare Bigfoot exists. In a science world I can understand if the bulk of the consensus is Bigfoot is not proven to exist. They may have many additional reasons to say why they don’t think it could exist such as food supply, and so on. Any official position of science or science academies on this subject doesn’t mean they wouldn’t consider any evidence brought forward. It just means if it unproven then that is the position until such time it is proven The part of Government which concerns itself with our Forrest’s, animals, resources, and so on have no special knowledge about Bigfoot. I don’t think they know he is out there. I think their view is generally that of science in general. EXAMPLE —————Government knows but that doesn’t mean what you think it means: There had been with advancing technology in the 1950s and beyond sightings of what some thought on Mt. Ararat in Turkey what appeared to be a big square something out of the ice. It became known as the Ararat anomaly. Photos were taken that were good for the 1950s and so on. With advancing technology crude satellites started photographing it in more detail esp since the 1970s. While some believe this to be Noah’s Ark/ship of Gilgamesh the government position was just something is up there. They did know about it but they didn’t think it was Noah’s ark. Any accusation where “the government knows Noah’s ark is there and they are just covering it up” was not so. They DID KNOW an Anomaly was there. This was labeled secret because of the region of the world it was taken and because we didn’t want to divulge our satellite imaging power to the Soviet Union at the time. Our tech improved to the point where - regardless of Noah’s ark- we know that anomaly is just a natural formation which can easily be located and vowed on a satellite even google earth. in this way government can know something but that something is not what you or I might think it means. Old phots of something odd on Mt Ararat in Turkey: fact: Anomalies on the mountain. conjecture: It’s Noah’s ark Act of keeping it secret: fact: Protecting satellite capabilities by being secret so Russia doesn’t know conjecture: Our government doesn’t want us to know Noah’s ark is up there.
norseman Posted November 29, 2023 Admin Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Backdoc said: why would the government know if they “bigfoot” exist? We know some animals existED. Some that existED might still exist today. (Like the Ivory billed woodpecker). Now there are some things like Bigfoot that have been reported but are not proven to have ever existED. thus the are considered not to exist until proof is offered. Some may see it as unlikely while others see it as promising. Others still feel they have seen enough declare Bigfoot exists. In a science world I can understand if the bulk of the consensus is Bigfoot is not proven to exist. They may have many additional reasons to say why they don’t think it could exist such as food supply, and so on. Any official position of science or science academies on this subject doesn’t mean they wouldn’t consider any evidence brought forward. It just means if it unproven then that is the position until such time it is proven The part of Government which concerns itself with our Forrest’s, animals, resources, and so on have no special knowledge about Bigfoot. I don’t think they know he is out there. I think their view is generally that of science in general. EXAMPLE —————Government knows but that doesn’t mean what you think it means: There had been with advancing technology in the 1950s and beyond sightings of what some thought on Mt. Ararat in Turkey what appeared to be a big square something out of the ice. It became known as the Ararat anomaly. Photos were taken that were good for the 1950s and so on. With advancing technology crude satellites started photographing it in more detail esp since the 1970s. While some believe this to be Noah’s Ark/ship of Gilgamesh the government position was just something is up there. They did know about it but they didn’t think it was Noah’s ark. Any accusation where “the government knows Noah’s ark is there and they are just covering it up” was not so. They DID KNOW an Anomaly was there. This was labeled secret because of the region of the world it was taken and because we didn’t want to divulge our satellite imaging power to the Soviet Union at the time. Our tech improved to the point where - regardless of Noah’s ark- we know that anomaly is just a natural formation which can easily be located and vowed on a satellite even google earth. in this way government can know something but that something is not what you or I might think it means. Old phots of something odd on Mt Ararat in Turkey: fact: Anomalies on the mountain. conjecture: It’s Noah’s ark Act of keeping it secret: fact: Protecting satellite capabilities by being secret so Russia doesn’t know conjecture: Our government doesn’t want us to know Noah’s ark is up there. I see your line of logic? But it fails in comparison. Patty is NOT an anomaly….. No one is arguing that she is a stump or a Bear. The government KNOWS about the PGF and they know about Bigfoot. Lyle Laverty visited bluff creek within days of the film. He went on to become the head of the USFS….. And what is the USFS response? Jokes. From the official website. https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2015/04/01/loss-space-threatening-north-american-sasquatch Your position is untenable. If you believe Patty is a hoax? Fine. But if you believe Patty is real? Then the government is absolutely covering it up. Because they DO know about Bigfoot, and they make FUN of the topic and it’s believers. And it really really pisses me off. Because I know for a fact they lie about other things to push their agenda. Spotted owl anyone? This has nothing to do with anomalies under a glacier or on Mars or on our sea floor. This is either a real creature walking across our TV sets? Or it’s a hoax. There is NO wiggle room.
Huntster Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 7 hours ago, Backdoc said: ........In a science world I can understand if the bulk of the consensus is Bigfoot is not proven to exist. They may have many additional reasons to say why they don’t think it could exist such as food supply, and so on. Any official position of science or science academies on this subject doesn’t mean they wouldn’t consider any evidence brought forward. It just means if it unproven then that is the position until such time it is proven The part of Government which concerns itself with our Forrest’s, animals, resources, and so on have no special knowledge about Bigfoot. I don’t think they know he is out there. I think their view is generally that of science in general.......... Agreed. Both Government and Science know that the phenomenon exists, whether that means a physical creature or social psychological belief, recently extinct creature, or whatever. Both also possess a perceived position of authority and responsibility towards society to look into scientific matters for us, and both participate in going as far as to prohibit us from doing such on our own in many matters without permission. But of the two, Science has always taken the back seat in both responsibility and authority to Government, and Government has openly commanded authority in all matters, going as far as to control Science (like everything else) primarily with the power of the purse. If Government has even a clue that a rare and potentially endangered species inhabits federal lands, its responsibility is to investigate the matter. The very reason why the Endangered Species Act was legislated into law was to create a legal framework by which concerned parties could legally petition Government to review the status of other species because Government has proven in th past that it couldn't be trusted to do so in the face of political, economic, or other pressures. That is the very premise of this thread: the combined weights of authority and responsibility, which rests only with Government. They are not to wait for a sasquatch to fall out of the sky into their laps (which has likely already occurred). It is their responsibility to look into the matter, which they have not done in any way, shape, or matter.........at least, that is what we see and (if asked) they will imply. The Endangered Species Act itself did not fall out of the sky. It was preceded by The Endangered Species Preservation Act of 1966, signed into law on October 15 of that year..........one year and five days before the famous filming of Bluff Creek by Patterson and Gimlin, and some 11 years after Jerry Crew casted the first prints of the area and made the issue famous. The 1966 law was amended in 1969, then finally superseded in 1973 with the current law. How does one defeat the responsibility of managing a rare and endangered species? By ignoring the very existence of that species. That is easily done with simple ignorance, precisely what we have seen since 1967. Quote why would the government know if they “bigfoot” exist?......... Because if sasquatches existed up to 1967, that would allow Government (at all levels, local, state, and federal) over two centuries of authority over lands and wildlife to figure it out. Casting aside much of that time to a well recognized period of complete (and admitted) abject irresponsibility (and even happy participation in rendering wildlife extinct), we can say that the past century and a quarter of Government stewardship has given them plenty of time and opportunity to figure it out. So, beginning with the President Theodore Roosevelt administration (interestingly, the one president who told sasquatch stories), the American federal government has shown concern towards wildlife. That means over a century of opportunity to simply stumble upon a carcass. Given that the U.S. Army has owned and operated a major Army post since 1917 smack dab in the U.S. county that has the highest number of sasquatch reports in the BFRO database (and with many of those reports on Army lands there), it's a pretty tall order fir me (a former Army lands official) to believe that the Army hasn't looked into the issue........with the expected official silence. Quote ........We know some animals existED......... Correct. Unlike extraterrestrial aliens, we know that sasquatch type creatures existed in the distant past in Asia and Africa. Yet look at how much Government has invested in the search for extraterrestrial life........ Quote ........Government knows but that doesn’t mean what you think it means......... My theory is that, yes, Government knows. I don't really know what that means, but Government's behavior is the natural fertilizer to theorize further about their motives and reasons for discouraging discovery. 1
Backdoc Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 11 hours ago, norseman said: I see your line of logic? But it fails in comparison. Patty is NOT an anomaly….. No one is arguing that she is a stump or a Bear. The government KNOWS about the PGF and they know about Bigfoot. Lyle Laverty visited bluff creek within days of the film. He went on to become the head of the USFS….. And what is the USFS response? Jokes. From the official website. https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2015/04/01/loss-space-threatening-north-american-sasquatch Your position is untenable. If you believe Patty is a hoax? Fine. But if you believe Patty is real? Then the government is absolutely covering it up. Because they DO know about Bigfoot, and they make FUN of the topic and it’s believers. And it really really pisses me off. Because I know for a fact they lie about other things to push their agenda. Spotted owl anyone? This has nothing to do with anomalies under a glacier or on Mars or on our sea floor. This is either a real creature walking across our TV sets? Or it’s a hoax. There is NO wiggle room. I look at it like a jury. Roger is accused of a hoax. I see no convincing evidence they can demonstrate it is a hoax. Thus I would find Roger innocent of being proven of hoaxing the PGF. Finding a hoax unproven does prove it is real just suggest they failed to prove the hoax. The hoax didn’t make the case yet. I’m on the fence. So far, I. would say the case against the PGF has gone down in flames. But tomorrow, maybe some demonstration or Gimlin show and tell confession could come out. I highly doubt this BUT, if it did, I would have to go where those news facts took me. I’ll continue to think as long as any subject is low on the threat level the government’s concern is equally low. Thus, Bigfoot in my mind is a very low level concern and that means only a tiny concern to the government.
Backdoc Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Huntster said: Agreed. Both Government and Science know that the phenomenon exists, whether that means a physical creature or social psychological belief, recently extinct creature, or whatever. Both also possess a perceived position of authority and responsibility towards society to look into scientific matters for us, and both participate in going as far as to prohibit us from doing such on our own in many matters without permission. But of the two, Science has always taken the back seat in both responsibility and authority to Government, and Government has openly commanded authority in all matters, going as far as to control Science (like everything else) primarily with the power of the purse. If Government has even a clue that a rare and potentially endangered species inhabits federal lands, its responsibility is to investigate the matter. The very reason why the Endangered Species Act was legislated into law was to create a legal framework by which concerned parties could legally petition Government to review the status of other species because Government has proven in th past that it couldn't be trusted to do so in the face of political, economic, or other pressures. That is the very premise of this thread: the combined weights of authority and responsibility, which rests only with Government. They are not to wait for a sasquatch to fall out of the sky into their laps (which has likely already occurred). It is their responsibility to look into the matter, which they have not done in any way, shape, or matter.........at least, that is what we see and (if asked) they will imply. The Endangered Species Act itself did not fall out of the sky. It was preceded by The Endangered Species Preservation Act of 1966, signed into law on October 15 of that year..........one year and five days before the famous filming of Bluff Creek by Patterson and Gimlin, and some 11 years after Jerry Crew casted the first prints of the area and made the issue famous. The 1966 law was amended in 1969, then finally superseded in 1973 with the current law. How does one defeat the responsibility of managing a rare and endangered species? By ignoring the very existence of that species. That is easily done with simple ignorance, precisely what we have seen since 1967. Because if sasquatches existed up to 1967, that would allow Government (at all levels, local, state, and federal) over two centuries of authority over lands and wildlife to figure it out. Casting aside much of that time to a well recognized period of complete (and admitted) abject irresponsibility (and even happy participation in rendering wildlife extinct), we can say that the past century and a quarter of Government stewardship has given them plenty of time and opportunity to figure it out. So, beginning with the President Theodore Roosevelt administration (interestingly, the one president who told sasquatch stories), the American federal government has shown concern towards wildlife. That means over a century of opportunity to simply stumble upon a carcass. Given that the U.S. Army has owned and operated a major Army post since 1917 smack dab in the U.S. county that has the highest number of sasquatch reports in the BFRO database (and with many of those reports on Army lands there), it's a pretty tall order fir me (a former Army lands official) to believe that the Army hasn't looked into the issue........with the expected official silence. Correct. Unlike extraterrestrial aliens, we know that sasquatch type creatures existed in the distant past in Asia and Africa. Yet look at how much Government has invested in the search for extraterrestrial life........ My theory is that, yes, Government knows. I don't really know what that means, but Government's behavior is the natural fertilizer to theorize further about their motives and reasons for discouraging discovery. I don’t know how much the government knows. But if what they know is a threat they are all over it (even if quietly). The higher the threat the higher the concern. I don’t claim to know always makes me wonder what would happen if a Bigfoot body was found in the woods dead from whatever we can imagine. what actions would the government take? Sherrif, cops, DNR and so on. And what do they do if there was a lot of witnesses. Say a boys out troop of 50 scouts and their leaders find it (most with cameras).
Chim Chim Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 I think we got the answer to that during the GA Bigfoot body hoax a number of years ago, no doubt a number of govt officials followed the story but I don’t remember anything being said/done officially and then of course it all fell apart.
Huntster Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Backdoc said: ………I’ll continue to think as long as any subject is low on the threat level the government’s concern is equally low. Thus, Bigfoot in my mind is a very low level concern and that means only a tiny concern to the government. Agreed. Sasquatches are, for all intents and purposes, extinct. If they could be brought back to viability, I don’t see how that would save the world. I’m not a tree hugger or whale savior. I frankly believe they should be left alone. 1
Backdoc Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chim Chim said: I think we got the answer to that during the GA Bigfoot body hoax a number of years ago, no doubt a number of govt officials followed the story but I don’t remember anything being said/done officially and then of course it all fell apart. not familiar with it but it would seem a reasonable “laboratory experiment “ on what might happen. The Q on that stuff is the subject matter. Wouldn’t a police or DNR or reporter or whomever already going into it expecting a likely hoax. If so that would affect the response but then again a real thing might be initially thought as a hoax as well. when the balloon boy hoax was pulled the national news Fox CNN and so on followed the balloon believing someone was stuck on board. It was plausible and believable Edited November 29, 2023 by Backdoc
norseman Posted November 29, 2023 Admin Posted November 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Backdoc said: I look at it like a jury. Roger is accused of a hoax. I see no convincing evidence they can demonstrate it is a hoax. Thus I would find Roger innocent of being proven of hoaxing the PGF. Finding a hoax unproven does prove it is real just suggest they failed to prove the hoax. The hoax didn’t make the case yet. I’m on the fence. So far, I. would say the case against the PGF has gone down in flames. But tomorrow, maybe some demonstration or Gimlin show and tell confession could come out. I highly doubt this BUT, if it did, I would have to go where those news facts took me. I’ll continue to think as long as any subject is low on the threat level the government’s concern is equally low. Thus, Bigfoot in my mind is a very low level concern and that means only a tiny concern to the government. No offense but you have a very simple minded approach as to what concerns the government…… The spotted owl was not a national security threat either. And yet it’s endangered species status destroyed an entire industry. When I was in the oil field? It was sage grouse that was the spotted owl . They used this bird to kick the oil industry in the teeth in Montana. Where the Federal government was strong. It had little effect on drilling in North Dakota where there is little Federal land. Back to the point I was trying to make. The government KNOWS about Bigfoot. And they choose to make fun of it and it’s believers. This is exactly what they did with UFOs as well. This way they don’t need to keep a secret…. they just tar and feather everyone that takes it seriously. Why? This at least in my mind is where we have room to speculate. I have voiced what I feel could be valid concerns of the government. And why they choose to do what they do. None of it has anything to do with a national security risk. But that has never stopped the federal government from doing whatever they want to do anyhow….. 1
Huntster Posted November 30, 2023 Posted November 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, norseman said: ........When I was in the oil field? It was sage grouse that was the spotted owl........ They're both delicious. 2
Backdoc Posted November 30, 2023 Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, norseman said: No offense but you have a very simple minded approach as to what concerns the government…… It’s on a case by case basis. When I thought there was a prowler outside my house years ago I grabbed by government regulated phone and called under the government created emergency channel to a government employee who dispatched 3 government cops to my house within 3 minutes. I was very grateful and all was well. That was good government. I have had issues with the government but most of the time that bloated inefficient monster called “the government” has been good to me. They are so inefficient and incompetent at times I doubt they could manage a hot dog stand let alone pull off a conspiracy. They caught the unibomber only because his brother turned him in. 1 hour ago, norseman said: The spotted owl was not a national security threat either. And yet it’s endangered species status destroyed an entire industry. True but that has nothing to do with governments action on knowing about Bigfoot. 1 hour ago, norseman said: Back to the point I was trying to make. The government KNOWS about Bigfoot. There is no proof of this and no logic as to why they would care to keep it quiet. if anything some out of control government agency would use the Bigfoot as an excuse of protecting Bigfoot to go after the industries they had a personal vendetta against. Think a more glorified spotted owl. 1 hour ago, norseman said: And they choose to make fun of it and it’s believers. This is exactly what they did with UFOs as well. This way they don’t need to keep a secret…. they just tar and feather everyone that takes it seriously. Why? This at least in my mind is where we have room to speculate. I have voiced what I feel could be valid concerns of the government. And why they choose to do what they do. None of it has anything to do with a national security risk. But that has never stopped the federal government from doing whatever they want to do anyhow….. Having concerns about wire taps, government overreach, and so on are valid and very important. Saying they give a hoot about Bigfoot is not logical as no action they take seem to support that. I won’t try to say the government is not at times out of control. It’s just not true as too many examples exist when government goes off the rails.
norseman Posted November 30, 2023 Admin Posted November 30, 2023 17 minutes ago, Backdoc said: It’s on a case by case basis. When I thought there was a prowler outside my house years ago I grabbed by government regulated phone and called under the government created emergency channel to a government employee who dispatched 3 government cops to my house within 3 minutes. I was very grateful and all was well. That was good government. I have had issues with the government but most of the time that bloated inefficient monster called “the government” has been good to me. They are so inefficient and incompetent at times I doubt they could manage a hot dog stand let alone pull off a conspiracy. They caught the unibomber only because his brother turned him in. True but that has nothing to do with governments action on knowing about Bigfoot. There is no proof of this and no logic as to why they would care to keep it quiet. if anything some out of control government agency would use the Bigfoot as an excuse of protecting Bigfoot to go after the industries they had a personal vendetta against. Think a more glorified spotted owl. Having concerns about wire taps, government overreach, and so on are valid and very important. Saying they give a hoot about Bigfoot is not logical as no action they take seem to support that. I won’t try to say the government is not at times out of control. It’s just not true as too many examples exist when government goes off the rails. STOP. I provided you with PROOF that the government knows about Bigfoot. (It’s on their website) This is not conjecture. So until you admit that? I have nothing further to add to this conversation.👍 (And they don’t treat it like a spotted owl….they treat it like a UFO. Why? Ask them!)
Backdoc Posted November 30, 2023 Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, norseman said: STOP. I provided you with PROOF that the government knows about Bigfoot. (It’s on their website) This is not conjecture. So until you admit that? I have nothing further to add to this conversation.👍 (And they don’t treat it like a spotted owl….they treat it like a UFO. Why? Ask them!) Are you really saying the April fools day joke (the link you posted) they put out was proof the government knows about Bigfoot? I’m really serious. Was there some link I’m missing or was that really it? If so I’m sorry I missed it. If that was it I assume you mean them making a joke is in some way actual proof by joking it is a cover up? I hope I’m just not clicking on this so I’m honestly confused. If that is the case, I would have you look away from NORAD official government Santa tracker: 1
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