Bigfoot, Friend Or Foe?

[NCBFr]

This thread so needs to be in the Premium Access... with all of the same participants.

 

Why?  What differentiates a premium acces thread from a normal access thread?

[See-Te-Cah NC]

The discussion of the benefits/disadvantages and the political implications of running that pipeline for one thing. OK, that was two things, actually.

See-Te-Cah NC: Perhaps I'll see you over in the suites sooner than later. Curious--are there fewer (I don't mean this spitefully, just factually) antagonists there? Shoot me a PM if you prefer. But you have planted a seed...

 

I guess that would depend on who you consider to be an antagonist. The one thing you'll get is gloves off, straightforward discussion in The Tar Pit and the General Bigfoot/Sasquatch Discussion forum. The Premium Access can be a lot of fun for those with a thick skin and plenty to say.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

The "Hairy Man" : The unspoken legend of this area

So, I will be upfront. I live in Western Montana - the mountains are real, the wilderness is real, and so are the people.

I live on a reservation and the population of Native American to White/other is about 50/50. My father is a tribal member and my mother is not. I am therefore a white descendant and have grown up experiencing both sides of the 'culture' so to speak. I have spent time in the rough neighborhoods and at white owned ranches and farms. Both whites and indians have stories that they rarely tell because they are so paranormal in nature.

Let me tell you about something that people don't talk about here.

When my father was born he was conscious. This is something he would never tell a stranger: but I am telling you what he told me. He remembers being in a 'waiting room' before birth - and surrounded by thousands of babies. Some were deformed, some were sickly, some were black and asian and other races - and one of them was covered in hair. It's impossible for me to explain this part better than he could: but basically he saw the waiting room for souls coming to this particular area of the world and he was one of the few 'let through'.

I am only sharing this detail because as a child I had dreams about the "Hairy man" and his family before I was ever exposed to the concept of Bigfoot. These dreams were frightening and unexplainable and only made sense years later when my father related this to me.

In my opinion - the Hairy Man is somehow related to this area in a big way and my ancestors, having been the first to settle this area, have had extensive experiences with the Hairy Men that have been buried under generations of secrecy and tight lips. Sasquatch may be part of my genetic memory as well as my fathers and our grandfathers.

Sasquatch was after all, named after the tribe who lives here now, who had named him 'Sesqec' or 'wild man of the mountains' before Louis and Clark came. It is this name 'Sesqec' which the world has adopted for Bigfoot...

So: my father was born with pre-cognition of the Hairy Man (Sasquatch).

Years later as a small boy he was playing in the living room with his many brothers when one of them burst through the door screaming and crying for my grandmother to come out and 'make him go away'. This was the first time the 'Hairy Man' had re-appeared in my fathers life. My uncle, also a child at the time, had seen a Sasquatch in the small garden out back, which is tucked next to a small creek and at the time was surrounded by trees. This Sasquatch was stealing vegetables and ran off after being sighted. Nobody spoke of this event afterwards - Sasquatch was taken for granted back then anyway, and my grandmother, raising a houseful of young boys by herself, had no desire to encourage them to panic : which they were.

As the years went by my father reached his early 20's and stories had been popping up around the reservation about a wild man breaking into houses and scaring children at night. 'Indian town' as it was called was the downtown area with government housing etc. and is a rough neighborhood that I grew up in myself as a kid. 'Indian town' was a very tight-lipped place and people didn't speak about these events to anyone but close relatives. The historic church which 'indian town' centers around has had many controversies and disturbing stories...

At night, in 'Indian town' someone very large and smelly had been rummaging through garbage and trashing yards. A couple houses had been broken into and completely trashed. Food from the cupboards was taken, food that a bear or other wild animal wouldn't have been able to access. People couldn't decide whether it was a wild animal, an alcoholic or drug addict, or kids causing trouble.

This carried on for some years. One family in particular started to be visited by Hairy Man almost every night. They would come home and see the door left open, their food taken, and the animals cowering under tables etc. This routine was so familiar that they treated it as a common occurence, like the 'family ghost' as my father put it. Something that is there but the family is afraid to acknowledge.

They kept their lips tight. But word got around. People were getting nervous. Everyone started to lock their doors at night (this was unheard of during the 70's). Dogs were acting cowardly for no apparent reason...

The Wild Man was having his way. Free reign. He was getting bold. He started to break into houses during the middle of the day. Children would see him and flip out. Police were called. Meetings were held. The town was becoming more and more shaken up by the presence of this unknown intruder.

This was when something incredible happened to the particular family who was 'favorited' by the Hairy Man. They had become so lax and accepting of the Hairy Man's presence that one night, while standing on the porch, the father was yanked off by his feet in full view of the entire family. They screamed and huddled together and cried while whatever it was 'fought' with the Dad on the porch. The sounds of fighting and screaming and knowing that your father was powerless against whatever it was... it must have been unspeakably traumatic for the kids. They are now grown up, like myself, and I wonder to this day how much this affected their lives.

The father was gone. For days. Whatever it was that had taken him had carried him off into the night after a struggle on the porch. There was blood on the grass and the family grabbed neighbors and men of the community to help recover the father. The men got together and followed the signs and trails left by whatever it was. Drops of blood and signs of something large passing through, they followed this trail all the way to the very creek which my uncle had spotted a Sasquatch at. They followed the creek all night.

When the men returned the next day, they didn't speak a word. A whole group of grown men, and not one of them was willing to speak about what happened. They had however, found the father. They recovered him. He was beaten black and blue over his entire body, ribs broken, arms and legs broken. The father was in shock. Incoherent. Couldn't speak a word.

One of my uncles had gone to see the man and his family in the hospital. There was a fair amount of good will being shown to the family that went through this experience. Nobody knew what happened, only that the father was close to death and the family was very shaken up. So my uncle stopped by to pay his respects, and saw for himself the father lying in the hospital. His eyes were bulging wide, he was trembling constantly. This man had been beaten badly - but something else was wrong with him. He was traumatized... he died that night and to this day nobody knows what grabbed him or what happened to him.

To this day, the men who went on the recovery mission to save him have kept these stories to themselves. Only a select circle, including my father, remembers these incidents. Almost nobody talks about them. I have shared them with you, for whatever it's worth.

Those men found what it was that took that father. They found the Hairy Man, and they killed it. They shot it to death with high powered rifles and buried the body.

The men who did this feel incredibly guilty. Sasquatch is a matter of fact here, and the older generations told us to avoid them and leave them alone , because they are human beings . They are not 'animals' and they are not 'magic'. They can most certainly be monsters... and this is one story that corroborates that.

But the Hairy Man, Bigfoot, is so human like, that even here, when a group of men killed one, they were so traumatized by the experience that they felt guilty of murder.

Back in the 70's there was no desire to be 'rich and famous' for killing a Bigfoot. There was no desire to even talk about Bigfoot. These kind of things were 'dirty little secrets', especially on reservations. Yes there were plenty of white kids bumping into Bigfoot and getting in the newspapers, but the indian community is tight lipped about this - even still to this day.

Hairy Man was a dirty little secret and I am glad my Dad told me the story.

As of this day Bigfoot has been sighted in these surrounding mountain ranges over a dozen times. One of the latest sightings was less than a quarter mile behind my house, at a nearby man-made lake. A Sasquatch was sighted by a retired elementary school principle who I know personally. He related to my grandmother in private, and that is the only reason I know.

I have been deep up into these mountains and can tell you they are not like other mountains. More has been seen and experienced there than people are willing to talk about, including close encounters with UFO's.

The tight lipped nature of Bigfoot is something people need to understand. This world is so full of cynics and boring people that it is assumed if anything 'fantastic' happens it must be made into a headline. That's simply not true. People who have traumatic and personal experiences with these things do not want attention for it. They don't want anyone to know about it.

If it weren't for people with big mouths: like myself : nobody would know

Hope it was worth the read.

 

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/10/fantastic-story-by-native-american.html

 

 

Plenty of respect here on the part of the people. It got one of them killed.

[Hammer102492]

WOW!  I just read this story.

I haven't read the other posts.

 

WOW!  That was something else man! 

 

I could see something happening like that around here.  Country folk use guns to defend themselves. 

 

If something happened like that here, I could call on all my neighbors and they would be right there with us. 

 

We have a local farmer that has a nuisance permit for deer.  He told me that they have been cutting six rows deep into his crop and he had to do what he had to do.  So he got a permit, has been shooting them and leaving them lay for two years.  I didn't even think about it until the investigator asked about it here this June. 

 

And yeah, we could shoot deer off our porch right now and be happy to have some good meat for the winter.  I stood outside late Thursday night and counted about 10 deer very close by.  Our hunters this year didn't get anything, but they came a couple of times.  If we had the patience for it, or the stomach for it, we could get them at night or whenever we wanted out of season. 

 

Makes me go back to thinking about my husband's big smoker house that he built and used all summer.  At one point when it seemed like BF were making themselves known close by, I actually marched inside and blamed him and his new smoker, cooking delicious smelling meat for hours that carried smell throughout our valley.

 

Not liking the thought of them being that aggressive for food.  But the simple scenario makes sense.  Easy meat is easy meat. 

 

And maybe they weren't "nice" bigfoots.  Maybe they needed food for their families, but it sure sounds like they were aggressive trying to get into the house.

 

Forget all the psychic SSQ stuff, maybe they just know how to get food they need and humans are bringing them in.

 

Heck, I remember when I fed a baby raccoon at our house in the suburbs when I was growing up.  When my mother found out about it, she told me to quit feedi

 

ng it.  Then, when I stopped putting food out, it clawed through my bedroom screen window. 

 

>>Song playing now, "Oh baby I caught you knocking at my cellar door.  I love you baby but can I have some more." by Neil Young<<

 

Milk blood to keep from running out. 

 

Maybe BF were addicted to the deer on that property. 

 

Glad it's all over now.  That's a story and a half. 

 

What things to for food or whatever is necessary for their families.  You got the humans protecting their families, and I don't blame them one bit, and you got the BFs feasting for their families. 

 

The aggressive getting into the house stuff is so scary!

 

Wow. 

 

Thanks for posting that story.  Most compelling thing I have read on BFF.

 

It's all fun and games until they start getting into your house, or getting into your head

 

That could have been, or may be in the future, how a BF gets killed.

 

Bears, alligators, raccoons, squirrels and whatever else you can think of get killed when they start threatening the family.

 

I shot a feral cat because I didn't want it to hurt our pets. 

 

That's going to be how it happens.

 

Glad that the situation cooled down.

 

Sorry for the people that had to go through that.  They'll be talking about that for generations to come.

 

WOW!

Song playing now..."For what it's worth" by Buffalo Springfield

 

"There's something happening over there.

There's a man with a gun over there.

Battle lines being drawn, nobody is right, nobody is wrong

 

I have to commend the BFRO researchers in trying to help defuse the situation and providing good information.  And for being safety conscious. 

 

"You better stop, hey, what's that sound, everybody look what's going on."

[JDL]

Escalating behavior over time is something to be concerned about.

 

If a bigfoot is kicking around and getting bolder, it is likely having encounters with more than one family.  If people aren't sharing their encounters with their neighbors, the guy down the road doesn't know that the bigfoot is ticked off by what happened earlier that night somewhere else.

[MIB]

Plenty of respect here on the part of the people. It got one of them killed.

 

Sounds like respect for the BF but no respect for themselves.   No boundaries.  

 

Do you know the location where this story originated?   The link mentioned western Montana.  It'd be interesting to know just where in western Montana.  

 

MIB

Edited February 18, 2014 by MIB

[Sasfooty]

Plenty of respect here on the part of the people. It got one of them killed.

 Once again:

 

I don't think that is exactly what I said.  Here is the sentence that got this all started: "And the something that protects you is having their respect."

 

I haven't had time to read the story, but if they killed somebody, the BFs obviously didn't respect the person that was killed.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

Sounds like respect for the BF but no respect for themselves.   No boundaries.  

 

Do you know the location where this story originated?   The link mentioned western Montana.  It'd be interesting to know just where in western Montana.  

 

MIB

 

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better, myself.

 

The story didn't give the location, but there are only two reservations in the western part of the state - The Blackfeet (NW) and the Flathead Reservations.

 

 Once again:

 

I don't think that is exactly what I said.  Here is the sentence that got this all started: "And the something that protects you is having their respect."

 

I haven't had time to read the story, but if they killed somebody, the BFs obviously didn't respect the person that was killed.

 

OK, and how would these folks have gained their respect? Shooting at them is out, standing up to them will get you killed, and letting them roam free to do as they please will get you and yours abused and/or killed. Suggestions, especially those based on fact, are appreciated.

[JDL]

Don't treat them like you don't know they're there.  If you pretend they aren't there, they won't go away, it will make them feel bolder, and that you are completely oblivious.  Don't leave things you want to protect, unprotected.  Even if they can break in, they need to understand that they are pilfering and that the items are not free for the taking.  Make them feel that you would object and that they can't just walk up and take something without having to worry about where you are.

 

Demonstrate some vigilance.  The first rule of counter-surveillance is that the first thing you want someone to see when they are looking at you is you looking back at them, or at least that you are alert.

 

Demonstrate a willingness to protect, defend, resist.  When they take something or cause damage, make a show of investigating.  Walk your property showing an interest in what they did, how they approached, and how they left.  Look for tracks whether you see any or not. Show the flag more often (and I recommend either carrying a firearm, or something that looks like one), so they realize that things will become progressively more difficult, and make a show of searching by sight locations from which they may be observing you.  Call in some friends or law enforcement to assist or investigate.  Taking something and having a bunch more humans show up in response is probably the worst outcome from their perspective.

 

At some point, when they realize the pickings are easier elsewhere, they will move on.

 

In short, respond to them as you would any human miscreant.  They will understand this.

I've told about the encounter when I saw and tried to approach the pregnant female and shortly after was stalked to within fifteen feet by more than one of them.

 

I stopped fishing, skirted the copse of trees the closes one was hiding in, walked up to the campsite about ten yards away, picked up the axe, faced the copse and asked the closest one if he needed help.  When he didn't respond, I told him that if he didn't need anything he should leave.  Then I walked back down to the bank with the axe and started fishing again.  They left and the normal sounds resumed.

 

The people I know in Missouri, if they feel them pressing in (hackles rising, as they say), will stop work in their yard, tell the bigfoot that they know they are there and that they should leave.  It has worked so far.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

OK, let's say I've done all of that. If that doesn't earn respect for me and mine, what next? The cops and other folks can't come and stay around forever.

 

I have to wonder how they'd teach me respect. I somehow doubt that they'd sit down for a dialogue with a peace pipe around a campfire as pan flute music was played in the background. As observed in many accounts, they issue painful lessons in respect.

 

How can a creature that shows no respect for me and my property expect me to respect them? If they had any degree of human understanding or social attributes, as is often claimed, they'd show a degree of respect from the start. I'm somehow expected to do so for their benefit, but they aren't? Sorry, but that wouldn't happen.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but if this method worked, Neville Chamberlain would have avoided conflict between Britain and Germany in WWII. We have nukes, and have used them, to demonstrate to others that we will not be abused by those that don't respect us when threatened and pushed to the very limit. Sometimes a deterrent is learned from an unpleasant example, and the threat of a repeat performance earns a degree of respect, even if it happens to be unfortunate for one or the other.

[Cotter]

Holy cow!  Do I understand correctly, that some habituators are aware of this potential threat and are not proactively addressing this?  

 

"Hey, so long as the rabid dog left my property, who cares if it wanders into a playground".......

 

JDL - I understand your point, but passing off a problem BF to the neighbors (that may be unsuspecting), could end up being very bad for said neighbor.

[JanV]

Perhaps using the word respect is too broad because of all its human connotations.

A better word might be wary.

For those in the situations described above the goal would be to control the encroachments by making the bigfoot wary of the potential for a negative human response.

Self preservation is a powerful motivator.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

So it sounds like "respect" is a word being used to cover up the real thing. FEAR. Wariness? Comes from fear. A knowledge of retaliatory action being taken as a result of not having "respect" is important. Smaller grizzlies run from the larger ones; and so it goes. A group of smaller birds will harrass and chase away the larger. We are smaller; the answer to the problem is a simple one: keep a healthy fear instilled. then "respect" will follow.

[BobbyO]

Don't treat them like you don't know they're there.  If you pretend they aren't there, they won't go away, it will make them feel bolder, and that you are completely oblivious. 

 

In my very honest opinion, and this is not directed directly at you JDL at all as you talk a lot of sense, but this comment just goes to show that overall we have absolutely no idea whether we are coming or going with these animals.

I was listening to a long time researcher the other day who day who said the EXACT opposite, he said to just ignore them and they'd give up the ghost and lose interest in the end and he said he was saying it from experience.

So who's right and who's wrong ?

Neither at the moment as we know so little about their behaviour.

[Guest]

How do we even know bigfoot is capable of respect? We dont.

 

re·spect

riˈspekt/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. 

    

    

   I don't think a bigfoot is going to have a deep admiration for me, based on my qualities, abilities and achievements.