Bigfoot Beheads People?

[Guest]

I think what MIB is saying is appropriate. 

 

Part of the reason any of us discusses anything here (or anywhere) is to sound out our own ideas, to see how other people react; to see if we can learn from other perspectives. 

 

And every perspective is valid, for the individual who holds that perspective. But the question for many of us is, how broadly does that perspective apply? We are trying to tease out the universal from the personal.  

 

It's fine to be afraid of things, if that's what you enjoy. Nobody would take that away from anybody. But it helps to be conscious of the choices we're making. It's a choice to be afraid, not a necessity. 

 

So, that's the piece of information that becomes more universal: that fear is a choice. Knowing that, being reminded of that, leaves us with more space to consider that we can choose some other feeling with respect to BF. 

 

Not to mention that the facts, the evidence -- the preponderance of it -- shows that most BF are not interested in killing people. Again, if most WERE, nobody here talking about their experiences would be able to speak. Or type. Or breathe. 

 

Thanks, MIB, Xion Comrade, and others for the reminder that we can choose fearlessness (another word for love) when we think about, talk about, and interact with BF. 

Leaf, I am not afraid sitting here in my home, I have decided not to hike or camp at this time. As an adult, I make these decisions for myself. In the future I may change my mind, and go camping again. At this time, hiking and camping is low on my list of priorities, hubby has no free time, and the boys are busy, so there are no plans to go anywhere not related to our kid's projects.

I'm making so much noise here because I wish for everyone who makes the decision to hike or camp to be aware that they will be sharing the woods with these animals. How I'll reach my goal, I have no clue, but I'll at least try. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by SweetSusiq

[Guest]

 

Dr. Ketchum's Dogman encounter story.

[Bonehead74]

My understanding has always been that David Paulides compilation of clusters of missing never found was over periods of years, and I'm not sure who the hypothetical people are that thought the clusters he compiled in the 411 books happened all in one year.

The article I quoted stated this:

"Paulides has scoured small town newspaper archives and pestered federal agencies for records. He found so many cases of missing people that one planned book became two, filled with more than 400 cases of people who went into national parks but never came out."

Paulides' clusters do not exclusively consist of missing who are never found. A significant number are found alive, and often under strange circumstances, almost as if they're being returned. If your operating hypothesis is that bigfoot is responsible for the disappearances related in the Missing 411 series, then bigfoot must also be responsible for those who reappear. If so, something other than decapitation and dismemberment to satisfy a sasquatch bloodlust is probably going on.

[jayjeti]

Paulides' clusters do not exclusively consist of missing who are never found. A significant number are found alive, and often under strange circumstances, almost as if they're being returned. If your operating hypothesis is that bigfoot is responsible for the disappearances related in the Missing 411 series, then bigfoot must also be responsible for those who reappear. If so, something other than decapitation and dismemberment to satisfy a sasquatch bloodlust is probably going on.

 

 

As I've stated previously in this thread I don't know to what degree sasquatches might be involved in the disappearances, and if you followed what I was answering it had to do with numbers missing in state parks, not numbers sasquatches had killed.  I certainly would never assign all the disappearances to sasquatches.  But I believe they are at least involved in some, the Dennis Martin case being one example.

 

You are correct, it slipped my mind that some children might have been aided by sasquatches that were missing, as some young children old enough to talk spoke of the bear man, or the wolf man keeping them warm at night and feeding them, or small children that seem to conspicuously show up where search and rescue could find them when they had not been there shortly before.  There are also claims of sasquatches rescuing adults, like a man who was cutting down a tree in the forest that fell on him and pinned him, and three sasquatches came and lifted the three and pulled him out from under it.  I'm not sure how to access "significant number," of what proportion it is.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jayjeti

[Guest]

Paulides' clusters do not exclusively consist of missing who are never found. A significant number are found alive, and often under strange circumstances, almost as if they're being returned. If your operating hypothesis is that bigfoot is responsible for the disappearances related in the Missing 411 series, then bigfoot must also be responsible for those who reappear. If so, something other than decapitation and dismemberment to satisfy a sasquatch bloodlust is probably going on.

I suspect, but do not know this as a fact, that most BF would rather not deal with us. I sincerely believe that most BF leave us alone, and do not bother us unless they feel threatened by a hunter, or someone comes between a mom and her child.

 

I sincerely think that most BF avoid us, and try not to interact with us.

 

Probably it is only a small number of BF that may harm humans. I do not think that all BF are out to kill humans left and right, I think they leave us alone, and perhaps watch us because of their curiosity. Sadly, it is the few aggressive BF that are the topic of all of the TV shows.

 

Who would listen to a show about casual BF interactions? Most people want the thrills and chills of scary BF encounters, which TV has a plethora of showing daily on several channels:(

 

However, I still think that Dogmen and BF are behind some, if not most, of the Missing 411 reports.

Then we have the stories of BF saving children, and returning them safely.

 

 As with humans, BF has some who are dangerous, and most I believe that avoid us and do no harm to humans.

Edited October 28, 2014 by SweetSusiq

[Guest thermalman]

But I believe they are at least involved in some, the Dennis Martin case being one example.

From what I've read about the Dennis Martin case, there were no eyewitnesses to any creature involved with the disappearance. He simply vanished after going behind some bushes in order to surprise attack (prank) the adults who were sitting around a camp. I'm not saying an animal wasn't invloved, but to speculate BF was involved is just that.....speculation, when so many other known predators are known to attack people, including other people.

http://www.wbir.com/longform/news/local/2014/05/22/dennis-martin-missing-45-years/9405607/

Edited October 28, 2014 by thermalman

[Guest]

I think what Jayjeti was referencing can be found in Missing 411, Eastern U.S. Page 145

[jayjeti]

However, I still think that Dogmen and BF are behind some, if not most, of the Missing 411 reports.

Then we have the stories of BF saving children, and returning them safely.

 

 

It's hard to say to what degree those creatures are involved in that.  Paulides is careful not to directly ascribe bigfoot to the missing person's cases except in some particular cases where there might be some evidence.  He addresses the suspicious clusters of disappearances.  

 

Linda Godfred, whom many hold to be the foremost authority in dogman research, investigating sighting reports for 21 years, claims she is not aware of one single instance of dogman causing a serious injury to a human. 

[jayjeti]

From what I've read about the Dennis Martin case, there were no eyewitnesses to any creature involved with the disappearance. 

 

That is not correct.  Very shortly after Dennis Martin went missing another family camping a little ways down the mountain saw a bigfoot carrying something on it's shoulder.  So, there was a creature seen in connection with his disappearance that might have been carrying the boy away.

 

Watch this video where Paulides discusses that.  Of interest listen around the 7:20 minute mark.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uz8E0UCm54

 

 

Additionally, those creatures are so stealthy that I would imagine its very difficult to see them nabbing people, that they can do it undetected if so desired.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jayjeti

[Guest thermalman]

The link seems to be accurate as the reporter indicates contact with the parents for details. After all, they were there and Paulides wasn't. No BF was mentioned in the story. I would bank that the distraught parents were transparent and telling the truth.

Reporter's note: I spoke to the family of Dennis Martin prior to the broadcast of this story. I thank them for being so gracious, poignant, and polite to a journalist contacting them about a personal family tragedy from so long ago. WBIR fully understands and respects the Martin family's request for continued privacy and their decision to not participate in this story.

Edited October 28, 2014 by thermalman

[LeafTalker]

Leaf, I am not afraid sitting here in my home, I have decided not to hike or camp at this time. As an adult, I make these decisions for myself. In the future I may change my mind, and go camping again. At this time, hiking and camping is low on my list of priorities, hubby has no free time, and the boys are busy, so there are no plans to go anywhere not related to our kid's projects.

I'm making so much noise here because I wish for everyone who makes the decision to hike or camp to be aware that they will be sharing the woods with these animals. How I'll reach my goal, I have no clue, but I'll at least try. 

Everyone does what they think best. You have a generous heart, and are doing what is best both for you, and for the people you care about. I want to do that, too. I just have a different take on how to do that. I am trying to teach myself to look closely at the choices I make each moment, and at what happens down the road as a result of those choices. It's very strange and interesting, seeing how the present connects with the future. There are consequences to everything we do, and sometimes they're not the ones we were expecting. The attempt to protect myself in one moment has often led to some real unpleasantness later on. (Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, yes?) So I'm very interested in the whole idea of protection, and the ways in which efforts to protect ourselves can sometimes backfire. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by LeafTalker

[jayjeti]

The link seems to be accurate as the reporter indicates contact with the parents for details. After all, they were there and Paulides wasn't. No BF was mentioned in the story. I would bank that the distraught parents were transparent and telling the truth.

 

 

You say no BF was mentioned in the story.  If you listen to the whole video, especially around the 2:00 mark the Keys family witnessed something very shortly after Dennis disappeared.  They were about 2,000 feet below where Dennis Martin disappeared when they heard this extremely loud scream up the hill, that was described as a louder scream than they've ever heard, from something that was moving and hiding behind the bushes and trees somewhat from the Key family.  The son told his father he could see a bear on the hill.  The father said no that's not a bear, it looks like a man.  It's later in the video after the 7:00 minute mark it mentions it was carrying something on its shoulder.

 

Now, a hallmark of Paulides 411 books is he avoids declaring bigfoot is behind some disappearances although you can gather the inference.  The word bigfoot was not used, but the description sounds like one, and saying no BF is mentioned in the story is not accurate, in my opinion.  Now, it could be your opinion that it was something else that the key family saw, but I believe it describes a bigfoot -- the extremely loud scream, the behavior in the bushes and trees, and the two descriptions of a bear or a man, sounds like a man with a coat of hair (a bigfoot).  And we can split hairs over was a BF mentioned in this story.  I think that's the intent of the story albeit Paulides does so without using the BF word.  

[BobbyO]

From what I've read about the Dennis Martin case, there were no eyewitnesses to any creature involved with the disappearance. He simply vanished after going behind some bushes in order to surprise attack (prank) the adults who were sitting around a camp. I'm not saying an animal wasn't invloved, but to speculate BF was involved is just that.....speculation, when so many other known predators are known to attack people, including other people.http://www.wbir.com/longform/news/local/2014/05/22/dennis-martin-missing-45-years/9405607/

Yet there was multiple witnesses ( the Kei family ) who reported a big hairy man on a ridge that same day and within a few miles of the disappearances wasn't there ?

I say that as by chance, I listened to a Paulides interview on YouTube at work last week.

[Guest thermalman]

The link I'm referring to, and quoted from, is copied below not the Paulides video link. This is where the parents and a seasoned tracker, who was there, tell the living story without mentioning any evidence of a BF. Paulides is looking for sales of his book.

http://www.wbir.com/longform/news/local/2014/05/22/dennis-martin-missing-45-years/9405607/

"The two big pieces of evidence I wish they did more with are a boy's footprint and a report from a man that he heard a child scream the day Dennis went missing. Some local guys found a footprint on one side of the mountain of a small boy's Oxford shoe like Dennis was wearing. But there were possibly other children in that same area with some searchers, so it was assumed to be one of the tracks of those children. Then another guy from Carthage, Tennessee, reported hearing a small boy scream in the woods and noticed an 'unkempt' man at the edge of the trees. The FBI said that area where he heard the scream was too far away from where Dennis went missing to possibly get there in that time frame, so they never checked."

Edited October 28, 2014 by thermalman

[georgerm]

Susi and others need to open to the notion that the forest has other dangers that are equally as horrifying and much more prevalent such a black bear attacks, rattle snake bites, cougar maulings, and in the near future............... wolf pack assaults. My opinion is these forest threats are way more real and are equally as horrifying.

 

Your intentions may be to make people aware of bigfoot or dogman threats, but this could backfire and result in bigfoot and dogman hunts.  Do you want mama bigfoot to fend for two young ones since daddy was shot by vigilante hunters thinking they are doing good. We have a vigilante army in Oregon like a cloud of gasoline fumes just waiting for the call to duty. Do you want to be the fire to set them off?

 

Leaf Talker expressed present acts can result in unintended future acts.

Hug, SusiQ ... thanks for not taking my intentions wrong.   You remind me of my very favorite aunt.  Stress is not good for us, it has a short term survival value but when worry continues after the immediate danger leaves, it becomes harmful.  I want you to be ok. 

 

I understand wanting to take care of your kids. 

 

No way to read that dogman's intention.   There are several possibilities I can think of and surely some I can't.   It could have been a bluff to hurry you along.  It could have been stepping out to see more clearly and be sure you were leaving.   It could have been triggered to pursue, like a cat, by you leaving.   Guesses only.

 

MIB

 

Really nice statement and glad to see the ability to take opposite view points and reach rational conclusions. Does anyone remember the story of the blind men feeling an elephant? This story applies to our perspective of bigfoots or dogmen.

 

"A number of blind men came to an elephant. Somebody told them that it was an elephant. The blind men asked, ‘What is the elephant like?’ and they began to touch its body. One of them said: 'It is like a pillar.' This blind man had only touched its leg. Another man said, ‘The elephant is like a husking basket.’ This person had only touched its ears. Similarly, he who touched its trunk or its belly talked of it differently. In the same way, he who has seen the Lord in a particular way limits the Lord to that alone and thinks that He is nothing else."    

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

 

Leaf Talker, I enjoy reading your comments and your well developed bigfoot philosophy. Most comments, I agree with. Below are some additional comments and would like to hear your responses so we can achieve greater understanding.

 

I think what MIB is saying is appropriate. 

 

Part of the reason any of us discusses anything here (or anywhere) is to sound out our own ideas, to see how other people react; to see if we can learn from other perspectives. 

 

And every (most) perspective is valid, for the individual who holds that perspective. But the question for many of us is, how broadly does that perspective apply? We are trying to tease out the universal from the personal.  

 

It's fine to be afraid of things, if that's what you enjoy. Nobody would take that away from anybody. But it helps to be conscious of the choices we're making. It's a choice to be afraid, not a necessity.  (it's not Susi's choice imho but hysteria)

 

So, that's the piece of information that becomes more universal: that fear is a choice.(not really) Knowing that, being reminded of that, leaves us with more space to consider that we can choose some other feeling with respect to BF. 

 

Not to mention that the facts, the evidence -- the preponderance of it -- shows that most BF are not interested in killing people.(a theory, we don't know what percentage kill humans or if they kill at all....maybe all bigfoots kill 1 human over a life time.....we don't know........maybe 1 or of a 100 engage in killing one human over a life time......we may never know) Again, if most WERE, nobody here talking about their experiences would be able to speak. Or type. Or breathe. 

 

Thanks, MIB, Xion Comrade, and others for the reminder that we can choose fearlessness (another word for love) when we think about, talk about, and interact with BF. 

 

Let's have fun, be kind, and learn.

Edited October 28, 2014 by georgerm