Guest RedRatSnake Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Looks like she is taking a bit of a beating, rightfully so IMHO, she could have been a lot more transparent and cooperated in a professional scientific manner with everyone, after all, she is trying to show a new species on a world level, Melba acts like a kid trying to protect her first pack of crayons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 rrs, competition & greed bring out the worst in many my friend, not to mention the very nature of some in the BF crowd. this has turned into quite a soap opera imo. but apparently it has also brought a few spectators out of "retirement" i see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedRatSnake Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi Slick It sure is one of the best Bigfoot rides I have been on since the old days, I guess I have come out of retirement as far as the BFF goes, I have been very much active on another forum and totally up to speed on all things BF, I never did like to be behind the eight ball. Funny thing ~ I noticed that Melba is being compared to a snake oil salesman, thought that was a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 hey bud. yes,i'd heard you were in the mix on another site, so i figured you were keeping up with things. always wondered where they squeezed a snake to get the oil outta one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RedRatSnake Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The Snake ~ Is not the one being squeezed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest COGrizzly Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It is nice to see ya posting on here again RRS...as I have have stated other places on here. As you can see, some of us "old timers" are happy to see ya back. I gotta say, even with seeing what I saw, I am more "jaded" and reserved about the subject than I use to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Agreed on the squeeze rrs. & also agreed on the jaded thing cog. It's hard not to be jaded with the current climate on top of past bull excrement in this field. For once it might be nice to see history not repeat itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) It is nice to see ya posting on here again RRS...as I have have stated other places on here. As you can see, some of us "old timers" are happy to see ya back. I gotta say, even with seeing what I saw, I am more "jaded" and reserved about the subject than I use to be. I haven't the benefit of any other climate among BFers because I awakened to the field in late 2009. If you don't mind, would you please write what is it you "saw" that even with seeing you are more jaded? I think personally somewhere over the last few years I came to feel the hurdles to "proof" originate from "us" rather than the actual problem...even given the stealth of BFs? i guess that is officially off topic. So, to stay on thread I saw the response by Dr. Ketchum, I think yesterday, that she is the point-man for all attacks pre-publication and why the many co-authors names remain guarded. I have found the trajectory of the study/public statements odd, and attribute it to the weirdness of Bigfootery, but as time progresses it seems also those not so interested are opposed to discovery, in ways one doesn't expect, the resistance to the idea is great. I am beyond predictions either way, haven't a clue. Wish the Sierra Kills data came out separate from the larger study, nothing has changed for me there, but I do feel softer/gentler toward those maligned in the community (with a few exceptions) now that I see the free for all...it does seem to be, "every man for himself, winner take all" mentality that dominates...and the cooperative smaller groups slide along? Edited January 10, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) John Hawkes blog has an interesting article and I think many here could absorb this, not that it's BF important, or it is, as it deals with selling of genetic testing to the public. Something we might see in BF researcher's future for their samples? But, I did understand the part about the nasty emails, and unanswered ones, and selective blogging! Ha, just thought it might make others feel more sane, to see these nasty debates in professional circles...?http://www.genomesun...try-testing.php that is the rebuttal...Hawkes' blog has the article link that prompts response: http://johnhawks.net...tique-2013.html Edited January 10, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Character vs. Competence. Ever heard of Steve Jobs? Did he do a bad job, because he is known to not be the easiest kind of person? It just isnt important how Dr. K handles other people. How many nice people have i met that just werent up for their job, and the other way around. By the way. If the study is a hoax, why should she be going after Evans artwork in a manner that doesnt seem to be planted to leak, if in the end there will be nothing? And be sure if she publishes this way or the other, if the sience is bad she will get beaten up by the scientific community like you have never seen before. If its all a hoax why stop posting of a video that most think is a missidentification anyway, why the artwork stuff, why all this if the easy way to trap the BF community would be to say "its Patty"? Remember the Matilda sketch thing, if that would have been a publicity stunt, they would have used the publicity gained at the time, thats the basics of communication! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) My impression is the number who feel this a hoax from the get go are small. I think many now wonder if the claims Dr. Ketchum has made will live up to the expected reality: a scientific peer-review that results in publication in a Journal of repute. And, I do agree the "total person" resides in the background to science. But, not the choices we make with respect to relationships or support, etc. Then our behavior, trustworthiness , greediness, mercy, compassion, generosity, and etc., all come to the fore and can affect those relationships and future research. Ideally, one is a great person and a great scientist, they are out there. Dr. Watson is an example perhaps of one who is responsible for a huge discovery and yet has made public comments that makes one wonder what kind of "human" he is....and all those views are personal, whether important or not, good or bad. It feels like, right now, there is huge tension in the BF crowd. People like to be on a winning team, and proof seems to be winning? So, who knows? But, for me personally the underlying human means a lot, and it is a measure of the things, in the end, that are important, our own souls. Edited January 10, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Working with people. Look at all the reality TV, although the people are casted for being extreme and generating tension and conflict, they in the end most of the time, say they were shown, edited etc. in a wrong way. And that the producers are greedy, and not trustworthy and so on. But in reality what they do is show the person behind the mask/self illusion. They just cut back where you said the opposite when that was nice to say and so on. The producer just doesnt show you the way you enact "showing off" and playing "Mr. nice guy" yourself, but show the real character. Sure its hard to see, but thats why balanced and in peace with themself people just doesnt get it in the Show, and usualy arent even apply for a casting! Once again those people are casted for such personalities in the first place! I think its a similar thing here. Sure we would have seen Rene Dahinden, John Green, Dr. Bindernagel etc. to get the fame, they have "earned" by living the outsiders live. But thats just romantic. We need the objectivity that its even more likely that the discovery of BF becomes "King Kong" like. No happy end and with all the greed, egoism, etc. thats part of our daily capitalistic lifes. We dont life in a "nice guy world", so why should the discovery of BF be this way? And finally, who is it that goes out invading BF territory placing traps of all kind and pointing tech in there direction, likely driving them thru the woods on and on again? Maybe nice people, but invaders that very likely cause stress to the BFs. We just perfectly fit in the greedy, egoistic world we realy life in. We just dont want to see us in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Can't disagree really, great post. And maybe King Kong is Oxford? I can't say who Dr. Ketchum is and have been pleased by her interviews really and call for protection. It speaks to confidence and future vision. But, until her work is public and she can speak, and others review, the void is filled with our speculations here. Also, can't agree more on the amateur status of BF research. I hope proof, or revelations this year, result in some guidance, or regulation of that activity ..what exactly that is I am not sure, nor expect to have much influence in. But, it seems modern society will expect modern anthropology which seems to be hands off amateurs? Edited January 10, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thepattywagon Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Character vs. Competence. Ever heard of Steve Jobs? Did he do a bad job, because he is known to not be the easiest kind of person? It just isnt important how Dr. K handles other people. How many nice people have i met that just werent up for their job, and the other way around. I totally agree with you on this, Data. I've always felt that some folks tend to have a problem with the fact that she's a woman, and one with a strong personality. If her study does get published by a reputable journal, we may all see that, in hindsight, her ability to maintain control over the study, was a necessary thing, and her 'ends' justified her 'means'. That's IF there is a paper based on sound science. Addressing her PR missteps is another issue altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks Apehuman and Pattywagon! Yes her PR is bad. But than its just FB and hearsay that messed it up. If every post regarding holliday or what ever ("soon") gets interpreted in BF forums (Lindsay, etc.) whats it worth, besides entertainment? Also all this shows that she surely isnt into Publicity in any way. On the other hand look at Biscardi, he cant be called a PR dummy. I dont want to come to a conclusion about "the Paper" but hoaxers usually know how to play the media/community game (dare I say Quantra?), Melba et al doesnt even seem to know the basics. But we know she is realy into DNA and a real person throwing, showing her face on TV and stating what is her downfall if she have nothing to back it up. On the other side she could have kept on testin BF samples for Bear and contamination her whole life. At this time, it seems to be like with all the witnesses. They really think they have seen one, but if it was just missidentification no one can prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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