Is Anyone Feeling Closer To Sasquatch Discovery?

[hiflier]

43 minutes ago, norseman said:

How’s your rubber gloves and zip lock baggie working for you?

 

What a condescending crappy thing to say.

 

43 minutes ago, norseman said:

You gotta lab address I can send em to yet? No.... of course not.

 

 

I do. But not for hair or scat. You want a lab find one in your area, try the WSU. The hair/scat dance has all been done before and what was the outcome? ANY outcome. I pick my spots carefully and will not cry wolf to a lab. Now quit the snarky attitude. What is it with you guys, you're so danged angry. Isn't this thread dead enough for you?

 

43 minutes ago, norseman said:

You jump on bandwagons like your running for Homecoming King.

 

More condescension. Is that all you got?

 

43 minutes ago, norseman said:

I wasted my time helping you write a PRO KILL book!

 

You keep harping in that but you didn't help me write anything. I don't know WHERE in you head that you think you did. A long time ago you talked about the right gun to use but that was in normal internet conversation and you were actually speaking to someone else at the time. I thought it was good information and when came to writing the book I put the information in it. YOU, SIR, did not help me write anything so lose that thought. You were NEVER a part of that process. Truth, norseman. The absolute truth, and now it's on record. I didn't say anything before but I sure as hell should have. Now you know, and so does everyone else.

Edited April 16, 2021 by hiflier

[hiflier]

38 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

What would solve the mystery in the absence of a corpse and having all that dna for reusable testing? Hair samples won't do it. That argument died a while ago. Meldrum talks about it because he has nothing else to offer up and hair samples are in abundance. Forget hair. What about feces? Why is it so many rural areas with verifiable BF activity report giant feces piles yet none of that ever makes it to a lab? 

 

Perhaps a grass roots campaign to alert rural folks of the need for Bigfoot feces. Along with it, a recommended process to collect samples so chain of custody becomes evidence.

 

Instead of a reality show, there can be PSA clips.

 

"You don't know me but I'd like to discuss Bigfoot with you. The discovery of Bigfoot needs your help. If you have feces on your property or an area with known Bigfoot activity, we'd like to see it...."

 

Etc.

 

HAH! Good one! Love it, Arvedis

[BlackRockBigfoot]

I can't believe that I am wading into this train wreck of a thread, but...

 

I don't even comprehend what a lot of you are trying to propose.  We want to get rid of the infighting and bickering in the community and become a united front...but, then immediately begin to talk about how a large segment of people immediately need to be shut out due to their theories.  If you are just looking for flesh and blood, no-kill folks who are going to actually do anything more than the usual wood knock, howl, 'let's leave a bag of marbles on this stump'...then rinse and repeat...good luck.  If someone wants to actually put a body on the slab and prove it, or if they have had any other strange things happen to them while they were in the field...take a hike.  

 

That's unity all right.

 

I have just skimmed through this thread, but so far the ideas seem to go like this...well funded, organized teams in the field spending extended periods of time conducting research.  Established professionals in the scientific community who back the investigation who are committed to the search for Bigfoot.

 

Almost everyone who is involved in this has to fund it out of their own pockets and have to balance their field time with the demands of real life.  I am out more often than many other people...and it is a part time pursuit for me by necessity.  I guess that I could all in and end up living in a shack like Dahinden, but I guess that I am not that dedicated to the cause.  Short of getting that mythical deep pocket patron who wants to set you up with equipment and then pay you a stipend for looking for Sasquatch...the only way to devote yourself full time to this sort of thing is to make it self funding.  Heaven forbid that someone tries that, because then they are going to be attacked as 'selling out'.  Write a book, make a podcast, star in a show...and this forum will freaking release the hounds and go after you.  

 

I understand that I am saying this on a forum of grown men (and women) who devote a large percentage of their time to the study and pursuit of something that the general public doesn't believe exists...but, I have to wonder how much of this stuff is based in reality as opposed to some sort of live action role play type of fantasy.  It's the same thing that we saw in the thread where we were discussing a possible BFF youtube channel.  Things immediately went out of the realm of actual possibility into this weird sort of fantasy land.  'Hey, let's each shoot a clip and then cut them together into a single video to showcase the field investigators on the forum'.  That somehow morphed into livestreams from the woods (who has signal out there?), celebrity hosts, etc.  It's like it is just a fantasy to indulge yourself in as opposed to building something that might actually be possible.  Same thing with the eDNA thread.  Lots of conjecture and grandiose plans, but nothing actionable ever came of it...because it got too complicated.  

 

Here's an eDNA plan.  Get a group of people in different areas around the country who agree to follow established and agreed upon eDNA collection procedures and commit to gathering possible samples for study.  Find a lab who is open to testing the samples.  Determine the price and then determine if we have the resources.  If the resources are available, the members involved then collect samples as they are able and then the samples are sent in for testing.  The results are shared openly with the forum.  Bam.  Done.  There's your plan.  

 

From the what I can make out, a lot of the discussion here is how can the members of this forum work together to strategically to bring us closer to discovery.  To some degree, it already does that.  At least it does for me.  I communicate with a handful of other field researchers who I would not have otherwise connected with.  We bounce ideas off of one another, give each other recommendations for equipment or practices in the field.  Skinwalker has been a wellspring of knowledge...especially in the area of casting.  Of course, this communication takes place via messages as opposed to open discussion on the forum, but that is due to necessity.  

 

The reality of the situation is...we have a handful of people who are involved in a varying degrees of field research or the categorization and recording of data related to the phenomena.  We are scattered across North America and few if any of us are able to devote long periods of time in the field in different parts of the country.  We are not going to fund any groups of researchers to be in the field for any length of time.  Unless some of you have been holding out on sharing it, we don't have any billionaires as members here.  We are not going to collectively convince any scientists that Bigfoot exists...not with a letter writing campaign and honestly not with some poop in a plastic bag that might come back as having human DNA in it and as a result be immediately labeled as tainted.  Scientists are paid to do science...and unless their employer is paying them to look into Bigfoot, then the best that we can hope for is that an occasional one will have some personal interest in the topic and will utilize some of their personal expertise and resources to look into it.  

 

We are not going to set up elaborate, expensive operations.  It's just not going to happen.  If you think so, please refer to the Youtube thread that I referenced earlier.  

 

Here.  You want a plan to utilize the resources of this forum to advance the search for Sasquatch?  Encourage communication and the sharing of information between the members here who are actively involved in field research.  Set up a reporting function independent of the BFRO where witnesses can inform us of recent sightings.  Gigantor has already started this.  The BFF is an established entity that doesn't take full advantage of its name recognition in the field.  Take advantage of it and have this be an alternative to the BFRO or some crappy Bigfoot Facebook page.  Establish which researchers are available for each region to possibly investigate those sightings.  Have those researchers share the results of their investigation here with their peers.  Each researcher is still independent and does not need to conform to one single style of investigation or even one single belief in the origin of the phenomenon.  If funding is available, use it strategically on projects that will give us the most bang for our buck...like the eDNA testing or the Researcher of the Year contest...knowing that those projects may only enable the eventual discovery as opposed to some sort of Bigfoot proof silver bullet.  When those projects are decided upon by the forum, put volunteer members in charge of the planning and execution.  We always seem to suffer from all chiefs, no Indians.

 

Keep it simple.    

 

All of these things are doable.  All of these things are realistic.  They are not as glamorous as some of the ideas floated here and will more than likely not result in some sort of immediate acceptance or proof of the phenomenon.  But, they are REALISTIC.

 

 

[hiflier]

12 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Here's an eDNA plan.  Get a group of people in different areas around the country who agree to follow established and agreed upon eDNA collection procedures and commit to gathering possible samples for study.  Find a lab who is open to testing the samples.  Determine the price and then determine if we have the resources.  If the resources are available, the members involved then collect samples as they are able and then the samples are sent in for testing.  The results are shared openly with the forum.  Bam.  Done.  There's your plan.

 

And that has been my plan all along. It has taken me nearly two years to get it off the ground between lab contacts, finding scientists who will listen that are already interested in the subject. That's what I've been doing and it has taken a big chunk out of my time and life. But because a lot of it is sensitive and reputations ore involved I have played thing close to my chest. As a result, I look like some fanatic and have become persona non gratis n the eyes of many. And I couldn't care one whit less about it because this isn't about me and never has been. I've done the work, things are in place, I have quietly funded myself and have endured what certain members of this Forum have thrown at me for a long, long time.

 

21 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

We are not going to collectively convince any scientists that Bigfoot exists...not with a letter writing campaign

 

Any campaign like that would only entail letting INTERESTED scientists, those already wanting to investigate the phenomenon, that we support them, that they have what amounts to a fan club of sorts as a way of encouraging them to keep going.

 

24 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

The BFF is an established entity that doesn't take full advantage of its name recognition in the field.

 

I have said this also.

 

26 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

If funding is available, use it strategically on projects that will give us the most bang for our buck...like the eDNA testing or the Researcher of the Year contest...knowing that those projects may only enable the eventual discovery as opposed to some sort of Bigfoot proof silver bullet.

 

I have encouraged folks to contact their local universities with a zoology or genetics department and ask for a meeting then explain that as unlikely as it might be would they be willing to test any samples. That would keep things local and accessible  to the researher. Some academics may even run someone's samples alog with others at no charge because they're already ALWAYS running samples.

 

Really like your post, BRB, maybe members will listen to you even if they won't listen to me. It's the same message overall but.....well....thank you.

 

[Arvedis]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

The hair/scat dance has all been done before and what was the outcome? ANY outcome.

 

The only certain scat/dna correlation I know of is Sykes' work. I would fully expect most scat samples tested would end up being some type of animal other than BF. It's a real reach to ask people to look out for such evidence but it always bugs me reading a report and there's no mention made of an evidence collection effort.

 

Other than teaching people the fine art of milling around the woods, banging on trees and whooping, has the BFRO ever attempted to train people in evidence collection?  Guessing this must have been a topic at some point for them. A renewed effort should be established to teach ordinary folks who have no idea what they are looking at to have those ziplock baggies and tweezers or whatever handy. Then, an app/web site where they can print or scan pre-paid postage label to send to the lab as hazmat (TBD).  Pranksters will ruin the effort but it's an idea anyway.

 

EDIT: just remembered Paul Freeman kept a scat sample in his freezer for years. After he died, one of his sons had it DNA tested and it came back as bear.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Arvedis

[Rockape]

1 hour ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

The reality of the situation is

 

The reality of the situation is, if these creatures even actually exist, they are extremely rare and elusive with above average smarts. Even getting a quick glimpse of one is hard to do. Basically we are looking for a needle in a haystack the size of North America, so it's going to be extremely difficult to prove their existence since DNA, meaning a body or part of a body is the only thing that will do it. The odds are extremely high against it happening.

 

Only one thing achieve the ultimate goal, that is getting out there in the woods and trying to bring that DNA in. Hopefully someone will get lucky and find that proof, but we also have to realize it might not happen ever or in our lifetime. One thing is, there are more people now looking than ever before, with more knowledge and equipment to do the job so the odds are improving. We just all have to keep grinding it out and trying a novel approach never hurts, but what it comes down to is everyone's aim and ultimate goal has to be is bringing in a specimin.

[Incorrigible1]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

It's the same message overall but.....

 

Good heavens. Not in the same universe.

 

BRB makes a downright brilliant posting, and you latch on with a "me, too?" It's too much.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Incorrigible1

[Huntster]

5 hours ago, hiflier said:

........No one seems tired of Norseman's rants about shooting one.........

 

You should be thankful that we don't repeatedly endure the old "which rifle?", "which caliber?", "which bullet?" debates that seem to infect every other hunting discussion.

[wiiawiwb]

Perfectly said BRB and your ideas are well thought out and spot on. A voice of reason and common sense. I agree with every paragraph.

[mooseman]

4 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

You should be thankful that we don't repeatedly endure the old "which rifle?", "which caliber?", "which bullet?" debates that seem to infect every other hunting discussion.

Remember back in the day when that one guy claimed to have a desiccated sasquatch in his basement? Or creek freak? Those were the days 'eh Hunster! 

Endless bickering. I guess I haven't been missing much. 

What happened to guys collecting soil from Bluff Creek and trying to reproduce the 'sworls' people were seeing on casts that turned out to be casting artifacts? 

Remember that primateologist from Africa, Apeman? He noticed that most footprints from gorillas had 'pitting lesions' on them. Not one cast from north america has ever shown them. It's one thing I remembered but has never shown up. Maybe the parasite isn't here?

 

Anyway, great fun!

 

 

 

[norseman]

12 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

You keep harping in that but you didn't help me write anything. I don't know WHERE in you head that you think you did. A long time ago you talked about the right gun to use but that was in normal internet conversation and you were actually speaking to someone else at the time. I thought it was good information and when came to writing the book I put the information in it. YOU, SIR, did not help me write anything so lose that thought. You were NEVER a part of that process. Truth, norseman. The absolute truth, and now it's on record. I didn't say anything before but I sure as hell should have. Now you know, and so does everyone else.

THAT IS A LIE! What a piece of work you are.🤨
 

I helped you write that book. I did it simply to share information on how one might go about taking a type specimen. As I’ve said all along? It’s not about one person!

 

And then after you wrote the book with my help? You sat on it. I tried to get you to SHARE that book on the BFF as that was its intended purpose! You fought me on it! You didn’t want to be “outed”!

 

I have lost our correspondence concerning the book. So I have no proof that I helped you with it. But I do have correspondence that I fought to have the book see the light of day and why.

 

If I DID NOT help you with your book Hiflier? How would I have KNOWN about the BOOK!!!? How would I have known your REAL NAME? 
 

Whatever dude....bye.

[Wooly Booger]

12 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

I can't believe that I am wading into this train wreck of a thread, but...

 

I don't even comprehend what a lot of you are trying to propose.  We want to get rid of the infighting and bickering in the community and become a united front...but, then immediately begin to talk about how a large segment of people immediately need to be shut out due to their theories.  If you are just looking for flesh and blood, no-kill folks who are going to actually do anything more than the usual wood knock, howl, 'let's leave a bag of marbles on this stump'...then rinse and repeat...good luck.  If someone wants to actually put a body on the slab and prove it, or if they have had any other strange things happen to them while they were in the field...take a hike.  

 

That's unity all right.

 

I have just skimmed through this thread, but so far the ideas seem to go like this...well funded, organized teams in the field spending extended periods of time conducting research.  Established professionals in the scientific community who back the investigation who are committed to the search for Bigfoot.

 

Almost everyone who is involved in this has to fund it out of their own pockets and have to balance their field time with the demands of real life.  I am out more often than many other people...and it is a part time pursuit for me by necessity.  I guess that I could all in and end up living in a shack like Dahinden, but I guess that I am not that dedicated to the cause.  Short of getting that mythical deep pocket patron who wants to set you up with equipment and then pay you a stipend for looking for Sasquatch...the only way to devote yourself full time to this sort of thing is to make it self funding.  Heaven forbid that someone tries that, because then they are going to be attacked as 'selling out'.  Write a book, make a podcast, star in a show...and this forum will freaking release the hounds and go after you.  

 

I understand that I am saying this on a forum of grown men (and women) who devote a large percentage of their time to the study and pursuit of something that the general public doesn't believe exists...but, I have to wonder how much of this stuff is based in reality as opposed to some sort of live action role play type of fantasy.  It's the same thing that we saw in the thread where we were discussing a possible BFF youtube channel.  Things immediately went out of the realm of actual possibility into this weird sort of fantasy land.  'Hey, let's each shoot a clip and then cut them together into a single video to showcase the field investigators on the forum'.  That somehow morphed into livestreams from the woods (who has signal out there?), celebrity hosts, etc.  It's like it is just a fantasy to indulge yourself in as opposed to building something that might actually be possible.  Same thing with the eDNA thread.  Lots of conjecture and grandiose plans, but nothing actionable ever came of it...because it got too complicated.  

 

Here's an eDNA plan.  Get a group of people in different areas around the country who agree to follow established and agreed upon eDNA collection procedures and commit to gathering possible samples for study.  Find a lab who is open to testing the samples.  Determine the price and then determine if we have the resources.  If the resources are available, the members involved then collect samples as they are able and then the samples are sent in for testing.  The results are shared openly with the forum.  Bam.  Done.  There's your plan.  

 

From the what I can make out, a lot of the discussion here is how can the members of this forum work together to strategically to bring us closer to discovery.  To some degree, it already does that.  At least it does for me.  I communicate with a handful of other field researchers who I would not have otherwise connected with.  We bounce ideas off of one another, give each other recommendations for equipment or practices in the field.  Skinwalker has been a wellspring of knowledge...especially in the area of casting.  Of course, this communication takes place via messages as opposed to open discussion on the forum, but that is due to necessity.  

 

The reality of the situation is...we have a handful of people who are involved in a varying degrees of field research or the categorization and recording of data related to the phenomena.  We are scattered across North America and few if any of us are able to devote long periods of time in the field in different parts of the country.  We are not going to fund any groups of researchers to be in the field for any length of time.  Unless some of you have been holding out on sharing it, we don't have any billionaires as members here.  We are not going to collectively convince any scientists that Bigfoot exists...not with a letter writing campaign and honestly not with some poop in a plastic bag that might come back as having human DNA in it and as a result be immediately labeled as tainted.  Scientists are paid to do science...and unless their employer is paying them to look into Bigfoot, then the best that we can hope for is that an occasional one will have some personal interest in the topic and will utilize some of their personal expertise and resources to look into it.  

 

We are not going to set up elaborate, expensive operations.  It's just not going to happen.  If you think so, please refer to the Youtube thread that I referenced earlier.  

 

Here.  You want a plan to utilize the resources of this forum to advance the search for Sasquatch?  Encourage communication and the sharing of information between the members here who are actively involved in field research.  Set up a reporting function independent of the BFRO where witnesses can inform us of recent sightings.  Gigantor has already started this.  The BFF is an established entity that doesn't take full advantage of its name recognition in the field.  Take advantage of it and have this be an alternative to the BFRO or some crappy Bigfoot Facebook page.  Establish which researchers are available for each region to possibly investigate those sightings.  Have those researchers share the results of their investigation here with their peers.  Each researcher is still independent and does not need to conform to one single style of investigation or even one single belief in the origin of the phenomenon.  If funding is available, use it strategically on projects that will give us the most bang for our buck...like the eDNA testing or the Researcher of the Year contest...knowing that those projects may only enable the eventual discovery as opposed to some sort of Bigfoot proof silver bullet.  When those projects are decided upon by the forum, put volunteer members in charge of the planning and execution.  We always seem to suffer from all chiefs, no Indians.

 

Keep it simple.    

 

All of these things are doable.  All of these things are realistic.  They are not as glamorous as some of the ideas floated here and will more than likely not result in some sort of immediate acceptance or proof of the phenomenon.  But, they are REALISTIC.

 

 

Hello BlackRockBigfoot, and thank you for your input.  These are all valid concerns, and I presume you were referring  at least partially to my post above.  I do think the Bigfoot Community needs to set aside its many differences and come together in unity for the purpose of furthering our goals.  All of this petty infighting is pointless.  You also appear to be referencing the two essential doctrines that I proposed above, that I believe all Bigfooters should be able to get behind.  I never once advocated excluding "Pro-Kill" researchers from the Bigfoot Community.  In fact, if you take a closer look at my post you will notice that my own views have evolved to where I now take a "Pro Kill" position myself.  I do however believe that we should exclude paranormalists from our community, which IMO is pure common sense.  We have a difficult time as it is convincing both the scientific community and the general public at large to take the subject seriously with our Flesh and Blood position.  Paranormalists and those who consider Bigfoot some type of extraterrestrial being only serve to further discredit our community.  Advocating for the exclusion of paranormalist fringe "researchers" is tantamount to saying that flat earthers should be excluded from a geography convention.  It is pure common sense.

 

I hope I clarified this matter.  And by the way, I always enjoy reading your posts.  You have made many good points and provided some excellent contributions to this forum. 

[hiflier]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

THAT IS A LIE!

 

No, it isn't. I need to clear this up once and for all. You need to admit, publicly,  didn't write one word of that book! Not one measly word. The reason I waited to post it on this Forum was that I didn't have a way other than direct mailing to get it into a reader's hands outside of an eBook. It takes money to self publish without financial support but I wasn't about to be beholding to anyone on that front. ISBN number, barcode, copyrighting, Library of Congress....all of that took time and money before going public. THAT'S why I waited.

 

Lots of people knew about the book ahead of time, Norseman, you didn't hav some insider track on that. BobbyO knew about it and a few others. People knew it was coming. YES! you shared information!!! But so did  lot of people and no one is stamping their feet saying they helped me write the book. I mean how do people write books? They gather information whether it be for fiction or non-fiction writing.

 

I joined a caving Forum to learn about caves and bats. I went on an equestrian Forum to learn about a horse's body language. I researches night vision, thermal imagers, and Bigfoot's characteristics and mannerisms. There's a member here who rarely if ever posts anymore. A first person Class A report. It's the only report in the book. I wrote a heck of a lot more about that encounter than I did about what kind of gun to use. But that member doesn't run around an throw it in my face that they helped write the book!!! Good grief, you make it sound like you co-wrote the thing when as I said you didn't write one word of it. And lots of people encouraged me to g public including my sons, not just you. You want credit as a source? Fine get in line with all the other sources that I tapped for information. You'll be in good company because none of them wrote one word of the book either.

 

So, lose that thought, it took research, information from lots of folks, lots of websites, and lots of articles to write that little 88 page book. Your claim of helping me write it is hubris and a sham. And you've used that twisted conclusion more than one to try and guilt me about something or other by bringing up the point. So, to clear the air, did you help me write it? NO! Did you offer information for it? YES. You and a bunch of others. ANY and ALL writing, decision making on when to go public, and how, was all on me.

 

None of the above is a lie. I've never been a liar on this Forum and never will be. This post is the truth, ALL of it, and I will say no more....Period-end of story.

Edited April 16, 2021 by hiflier

[Redbone]

FWIW - I did not help write the book, nor have I read it, nor will I ever read it.

I will also not demand that everybody, or anybody do what I do, or work toward any of my goals.

 

My goal was to see one, and I succeeded. Now my goal is to see another. The hard part is done, because now I know where to look.

"Science" would not like my approach anyway.

 

[Marty]

21 hours ago, norseman said:

You seem like a great person, but there is a-lot wrong with your statement.

 

First and foremost? Many researchers are NOT trying to prove the creatures existence!

 

Secondly? We already have ZERO credibility with science. Just with the foot cast, PGF crowd.... Let alone the portal woo crowd.

 

Lastly? 99% of the the BF crowd are anti kill. The mindset is that the weight of reports and trace evidence will slowly destroy the bias of the scientific community. More foot casts, more audio, more reports. The PGF is what? 50 plus years old!

Science has never wavered on it requiring physical evidence!!!

 

So? We as a community can either accept that and take it on as our goal? Or we continue casting foot casts and recording whoops in the night. And then bitching about why science wont accept our evidence!

 

How many of us are working with a genetic lab? Scientists on speed dial? Biologists? Anthropologists? 
 

How many of us own a rifle, a knife and a 4x4?

 

Leave the ultra whiz bang sciency stuff to the scientists. Most of us dont even truly understand what we are talking about when it comes to genetics!

 

How was the Bili ape discovered? Through the bush meat trade!

 

Yes call it pitchforks and torches if you like? Its the reality of the situation. If your goal is to discover a new species of primate in north America.

 

If you have helicopters, and net cannons and an army of geneticists at your beck and call? Then obviously you have more options on your plate than the layman Bigfooter....

 

So I guess we can just continue to act cool and tiptoe around the issue while using cool sounding words?

 

Or we can hit the woods and roll up our shirt sleeves and prepare to get dirty.

 

I know which i prefer...

 

 

Well said sir