General consensus on what Bigfoot is

[norseman]

50 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

Valid point. This would make Neanderthals a different species, and a lack of the mystery sasquatch marker (if, indeed, there is such a lack) in the native American gene pool would indicate that sasquatches are a different species.

 

 

There is plenty of testimony and even recordings of sasquatch chatter that sounds like speech, and testimony that indicates that they speak to each other. Limited tool manufacture and tool use is not a factor in species identification, in my opinion. They simply don't need specialty tools. Throwing rocks and using crude clubs appears to be all they need. AFAIC, the fish trap is evidence of a poacher, not a sasquatch, but a crude fish trap is entirely possible, easy to manufacture, and leaves no endurable archeological evidence.

 

 

Regarding hyoid bones:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyoid_bone

 

 

Caribou have hyoid bones. I can't remember if moose and bears have one, but I believe they do. 

Sorry. I guess I should have said a human like hyoid bone. I’m not totally against Bigfoot having speech. But in almost 52 years on earth and spending a lot of time in the woods? I’ve never heard anything like it. I will confess that to me most of the chatter recordings sound like uncle buck. I guess I would need to see more evidence or experience it myself.

 

[Huntster]

17 minutes ago, norseman said:

......... I’m not totally against Bigfoot having speech. But in almost 52 years on earth and spending a lot of time in the woods? I’ve never heard anything like it. I will confess that to me most of the chatter recordings sound like uncle buck. I guess I would need to see more evidence or experience it myself.

 

Yeah, me neither. But I admit that most of my life has been in areas with (what I believe) is less than ideal sasquatch habitat. I believe that the area on the continent with the greatest density of sasquatches is the Coast Range from @ Ft. Bragg, CA, to Carcross, BC. 

[MIB]

I've heard something a couple times that .. just didn't fit.

 

Once it was like kids giggling but moving at crazy speed through brush without any thrashing or crashing.   I'm at a loss.

 

One was like 3 pre-teen boys yelling back and forth.   As they got nearer my location, they also got closer to each other.   They passed me, in brush, at about 75 yards.   They seemed to be within arms distance of each other but were still yelling.    That was weird.   In the middle of that was another sound which reminded me of elk "cow talk."   Couldn't see them through the brush.   Sounded like a tonal language .. sort of like my Japanese neighbor.    Big question: what three pre-teen Asian kids were doing up there alone.   No cars but mine at the trailhead, 5+ miles, 1700 foot climb, 500 foot drop .. bit of snow on the ground.   Doesn't make much sense.

 

One .. I thought was a younger girl "shushing" a dog just around a sharp corner in the trail ahead of me.   Basically came around the corner expecting to want to step off the trail and give them space so I didn't get bitten.    There was nobody there.   Nobody ahead, nobody behind, nobody to the sides, empty woods and trail.   Again .. I'm at a loss.

 

I think there's a psychological thing going on here.   I think this happens to a lot of people, but if it does not fit into a nice pigeonhole, we don't know what to do with it so it gets forgotten by normal people, it's only weirdos like me who don't sweep inconveniences under the mental carpet so as not to have to deal with discomfort of uncertainty.   I don't think not remembering means it hasn't happened to you, it means  you didn't have a comfortable category to put it in so you swept it aside and have "forgotten".

 

MIB

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

 

Yeah, me neither. But I admit that most of my life has been in areas with (what I believe) is less than ideal sasquatch habitat. I believe that the area on the continent with the greatest density of sasquatches is the Coast Range from @ Ft. Bragg, CA, to Carcross, BC. 

But here is the rub. I can almost see Bossburg from my ranch. I guess I smell bad!

35 minutes ago, MIB said:

I've heard something a couple times that .. just didn't fit.

 

Once it was like kids giggling but moving at crazy speed through brush without any thrashing or crashing.   I'm at a loss.

 

One was like 3 pre-teen boys yelling back and forth.   As they got nearer my location, they also got closer to each other.   They passed me, in brush, at about 75 yards.   They seemed to be within arms distance of each other but were still yelling.    That was weird.   In the middle of that was another sound which reminded me of elk "cow talk."   Couldn't see them through the brush.   Sounded like a tonal language .. sort of like my Japanese neighbor.    Big question: what three pre-teen Asian kids were doing up there alone.   No cars but mine at the trailhead, 5+ miles, 1700 foot climb, 500 foot drop .. bit of snow on the ground.   Doesn't make much sense.

 

One .. I thought was a younger girl "shushing" a dog just around a sharp corner in the trail ahead of me.   Basically came around the corner expecting to want to step off the trail and give them space so I didn't get bitten.    There was nobody there.   Nobody ahead, nobody behind, nobody to the sides, empty woods and trail.   Again .. I'm at a loss.

 

I think there's a psychological thing going on here.   I think this happens to a lot of people, but if it does not fit into a nice pigeonhole, we don't know what to do with it so it gets forgotten by normal people, it's only weirdos like me who don't sweep inconveniences under the mental carpet so as not to have to deal with discomfort of uncertainty.   I don't think not remembering means it hasn't happened to you, it means  you didn't have a comfortable category to put it in so you swept it aside and have "forgotten".

 

MIB

Aliens.

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

But here is the rub. I can almost see Bossburg from my ranch. I guess I smell bad!........

 

I'm confident that sasquatches inhabit the Rockies, too, but I believe that it is at lower densities. I also believe that their vocal habits are like wolves: in some areas, wolves are very quiet, and in others they sing like Baptists on Sunday. I think that's all about hunting pressure.........or human intrusion.

[norseman]

28 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

I'm confident that sasquatches inhabit the Rockies, too, but I believe that it is at lower densities. I also believe that their vocal habits are like wolves: in some areas, wolves are very quiet, and in others they sing like Baptists on Sunday. I think that's all about hunting pressure.........or human intrusion.

There is absolutely a distinct difference between wolves in the panhandle vs Washington.

[MIB]

21 hours ago, norseman said:

Aliens.

 

Well .. I can't disprove that so I have to leave it on the table as a possibility.     Not really a valid scientific process, but lets say I'd rather that wasn't the answer. 

 

MIB

[guyzonthropus]

Just because one has never beard it oneself doesn't make it any less than what it is. Maybe they don't have much to say to us pink hairless dwarves. Or that issues aren't so pressing at that moment that they expose that aspect of their being. Kinda reminds me of the old B.C. comic strip where one of the cavemen learns clams have legs, and then it talks to him! They expose what they choose to who they choose.

While I've not heard such chatter and speech, I have heard some creature doing what sounded like a count down of sorts, "guised" in tones that would be attributed to coyote s were you not listening closely. I grew up around this pack, or its ancestors from decades back, and I've never heard a canid that wasn't human-trained count down from 4 to 1 through four distinct sound clusters. I also heard two separate wood knocks during that nights activity, which also sounded like it was involving quite animated coyotes at times in an area I didn't usually hear such an ordeal. This was on the southern face of the San Gabriel mtns, when I lived one house from the brush.

Edited April 28, 2022 by guyzonthropus

[guyzonthropus]

 

 

As far as sasquatch in the pleistocene, yes, there were some mighty dangerous predators afoot, but not only would the sasquatch have the advantage of individual intelligence,but also the benefits of coordinated actions between individuals within a group, on a level which, I would imagine, far surpases that of other communal predators such as the wolves or big cats. Sure, they'd lose some to the big predators, but I'd think even a small group of crafty 8-11 foot primates could pose quiet a defensive front. 

in terms of the megafauna die off, sure, the influx of humans played a role, but there was also considerable climatic shifts going on, transforming habitats whose flora supported the mega-vegans into different ones with different plants, and unless you were sentiently adaptable or just quite lucky, making that change might prove too much, especially with those swarms of spear wielding monkeys running around. The large size that proved the key to survival in an ice age might prove lethally detrimental, as your world grew notably warmer, without the cognitive ability to alter behaviors, something primates have shown a knack for.

and hyoid bones? Every moose I ever talked with seemed to have one.

one last thing, the old defining elements of what we call species aren't as absolute and fixed as it seems some of us think. The idea that hybrids of different vertebrate species can't produce fertile offspring is erroneous. Genetic flow is ongoing, as is speciation, which can occur faster than we might imagine through bottlenecks and the like. But the old idea of species is outmoded.  It's quite probable that we touch monkey humans were "breeding" with most anything that walked on two legs and smiled( I mean, without our puritanical social moral code in the way, I'm almost surprised there isn't a human x lemur hybrid somewhere around on this planet, right?) And if there were 4-8+ plus humanish forms roaming about the viable habitats, my guess is that the "dating scene" was pretty much wide open...( "OH, yeah? Well there's a Yeszanthropus two valleys over that finds me quite desirable, thank you very much!" ) As always with so incomplete a fossil record as ours, it's hard to say just where every codon came from!

[Celtic Raider]

On 4/1/2022 at 4:03 PM, Huntster said:

 

I'm more physically different from a Mtubi tribesman as a gorilla is from a chimp, but I can readily interbreed with his female family members while gorillas and chimps cannot. That is the primary genetic reality that makes all the uniquely different people on this planet Homo sapiens. Thus, if we could interbreed with Neanderthals, Denisovans, and sasquatches, what makes them different species?

 

What?!?!?!?!................This is simply not true 

 

Obviously there are some visual differences (I assume, as I've never seen you Huntster) but they are kind of superficial.

Average height of Mtubi tribesman would be around 4'6" in old money which obviously makes them relatively small and I assume you are a lot larger. I myself and 6'1 and around 230lbs so I'd look a lot bigger plus our skin colours are different. However, if you looked at our internal organs or skeletons you would find that the structures are very, very similar, brain capacity would be similar, position and sizes of organs would be similar. If you took a gorilla skeleton and chimpanzee skeleton or hair and skinless bodies they look wildly different with obvious differences in the position of bones, muscle attachments, size or organs etc. 

 

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to emphasize as horses and donkeys for example can interbreed successfully but are different species but your first premise is just way off............

 

 

 

 

[Celtic Raider]

Interesting topic 

 

I'm a skeptic at heart but am open to be convinced and open-minded. I simply cannot explain the PGF and have always thought that looks like a real creature.

 

So, If sasquatch does exist it is Patty and her species. It is a large, bipedal flesh and blood ape, related to gorillas, chimpanzees and humans somewhere along the way. I really do hope they exist and if they do then there are no supernatural powers, no fancy cloaking, no ability to read our minds or teleport and they can't communicate via telepathy. They would be very elusive, shy creatures and probably omnivorous and long-lived. I think they possibly originated in Asia and crossed the Bering Strait at some time in the distant past and evolved larger due to the climate and resources. I don't think they're some half-human species that have not taken up tools or very close relatives like Neanderthals. They are simply elusive and clever, very large apes.

[Incorrigible1]

2 hours ago, Celtic Raider said:

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to emphasize as horses and donkeys for example can interbreed successfully but are different species but your first premise is just way off............

 

You left out the part about such matings NOT creating viable offspring, capable of reproducing, themselves.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Incorrigible1

[Huntster]

7 hours ago, Celtic Raider said:

.......I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to emphasize.......

 

Here it is again:

 

Quote

.......I can readily interbreed with his female family members while gorillas and chimps cannot. That is the primary genetic reality that makes all the uniquely different people on this planet Homo sapiens..........

 

Here is the definition of "species":

 

Quote

Species, in biology, classification comprising related organisms that share common characteristics and are capable of interbreeding. This biological species concept is widely used in biology and related fields of study. There are more than 20 other different species concepts, however.

 

Quote

.........horses and donkeys for example can interbreed successfully but are different species but your first premise is just way off............

 

And horses breeding with donkeys produce a hybrid, not a species.

[Celtic Raider]

8 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

Here it is again:

 

 

Here is the definition of "species":

 

 

 

And horses breeding with donkeys produce a hybrid, not a species.

 

But what's all that got to do with sasquatch? Are you proposing that we could interbreed with them or saying that we already have, I don't see how this is relevant to what a sasquatch could potentially be as there is no genetic line to follow................

[Celtic Raider]

13 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

16 hours ago, Celtic Raider said:

I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to emphasize as horses and donkeys for example can interbreed successfully but are different species but your first premise is just way off............

 

You left out the part about such matings NOT creating viable offspring, capable of reproducing, themselves.

 

Because Huntster didn't specify that? I wasn't sure of the point he was trying to make or are we talking about the Melda Ketchum DNA results or something...........but claiming that chimps and gorillas are closer than himself and another homo sapien is flat out incorrect even if there are obvious visual differences.