Face To Face Meeting With Bigfoot

[Guest Elisi]

Elisi, I most sincerely am not calling you nor anyone else here as being junk scientists, it's just that suddenly for the first time I'm hearing about these abilities being attributed to this unacknowledged species that I do believe exists.

It is difficult for me to suddenly hear about new to me paranormal abilities from new to me members whom I don't have a history to base belief and faith on or with.

* If I had *ever* heard something about this before I would have been less shocked. *

I understand how people react to things that are usually not something they are familiar with and especially something that stretches most peoples thoughts to a great extreme.I never take anything anyone says as personal but I will express my opinion and try my very hardest to never be disrespectful to anyone.

I didn't know the Bigfoot Research World existed until 2009. Yet I knew about Bigfoot for most of my life.Even though all the documentaries etc had been on tv I had never watched one.I totally understand something that you have known about in a certain way and then come to see this that you know about, looked at in a totally different way.I try to always remember that when people are asking me questions or making comments about what I believe.

I have become very good friends with a lot of researchers who are respected as researchers.They may be open minded more than some and some don't understand what I express to them but they know who I am and know I have no reason to make things up.

Some of the remarks on this forum have been so positive in not closing off the thoughts that there may be something to this as some of the remarks have been the standard remarks of closed minds not willing to even think of the prospect that something else could be going on. I somewhat understand their inability to believe something that seems so ridiculus to them. The first time I heard about call blasting it was hard for me to believe anyone would do something like that.I found out it is done.It was not in my thought process that something like that would ever be done.

This is a touchy subject for so many and pragmatic theorist is right. These kinds of reports and discussions have been discouraged. I have many friends who were part of research groups who were told don't talk about that report,that has to be put in a private file etc. Those who did chose to continue to speak out were chastised or thrown out of the group and then lies told as to why they were thrown out.I had one person say to me I will never tell what I know because if I do the research science world will never do anything for me. This BF World continually amazes me but I see a change.I see more respect coming into it.Nothing ever comes to light if someone is continually trying to keep it in the dark. Too many people are having things happen that they can't explain.There has to be people or places out there for them to be able to post or talk about these things too.I can continue to be labled crazy,nuts,hallucinating or whatever.I will never stop sharing my experiences.If for no other reason that MO posted this on this forum,that one person at least felt safe in talking about an experience they had then all the disrespect and ridicule is worth it to me.

[Guest Elisi]

Thank you Susie, I appreciate your sentiments and stated trust in what I say. When people have come forward about this stuff in the past, they were always ridiculed and blasted on forums. They were usually never given a chance at all. Plus the rules stated that such things were simply not allowed to be discussed. When people did discuss it, the threads or offending posts were usually quickly deleted. That's probably why it's new to you. There was also an atmosphere that existed that was extremely mean. Over the years, people who had experiences stuff just realized its better to stay away from forums then subject themselves to such abuse. This was a status quo that those in power enjoyed too. People being able to discuss it now, is actually a bit of a mini paradigm shift in itself taking place. At least at BFF. Keep in mind however, there are the bf groups that still follow the old way. When they receive reports that contain such claims, they either throw out the report altogether, or redact that particular content. This is where everyone has been misled. That's not science.

I think maybe I need to repost this about touching one.MO says in his story that I asked him if he wanted to touch one? That is not what I said.I would never say that to anyone or presume that they would allow that.What I said was "how does it feel to touch their presence" as in being there watching them.

The things you also see by bf groups and so called experts on TV of following up on BF reports, well those are filled with frill. These guys know very little about bigfoot actually other then seeing tracks, hearing howls & woodknocks, etc. Yeah they can solicit a response. Well truth be told, so can you.

Don't discount people just because they are new here either. It is the atmosphere here, now, that is actually new, allowing such individuals to come and share such experiences. Its a good thing I suspect. Tere are also some well known researchers out there who have also come to recognize these abilities exist many years/decades ago, and even they were lambasted by the status quo that has long existed. The field had actually become very self defeating in this sense. You do have people with credibility in the field that actually experienced this side of bigfoot and shared it. But when they did, they were ridiculed for it. Is that a valid method of arriving at a scientific hypothesis?

So far what I've heard MidnightOwl or Elisi say doesn't conflict with my even limited experiences. However I've never touched a bigfoot I don't think. Although something once reached inside my sleeping bag at night while I was backpacking in the wilderness, and well you can't imagine... But I never figure out what it was when I sprang up turning on my flashlight. Anyway, the best thing is to maintain an open mind, and forget the statement that some say 'not so much that my brain falls out'! That is just an anti coping phrase some follow because many are unable to deal with what they can't comprehend. That's just the way things are I suppose.

Had some of the bf groups actually saved such reports, they would see common thread today. They would have actually learned something. Not so much with the people making the claims, but that the abilities is something that bf's actually share.

Georgerm, none of my encounters are in any single location. That experience I mentioned above isn't even directly related to a single encounter, but more to how I view my encounters over the decades and even that I've been granted them at all (as scared as I was at times. lol ).

[Guest Elisi]

If this double posts please forgive me.What I posted didn't show up.

I want to repost something I said earlier. In MO's story he says I asked him did he want to touch one? I did not ask him that,I would not ask that and I would not presume that they would allow it. What I said to him was "how does it feel to touch their presence" as in how does it feel to be in their presence.

[Guest]

Wow. All you physics & monkey touchers, what am I thinking right now...

Does this cover what you are thinking right now?

[Guest Blackdog]

Nobody was ever banned for their beliefs, they were banned for their behavior.

[indiefoot]

Elisi,

Have you been able to determine the group makeup? Number of males and females? How many youngsters and how often there are new births? What age do the females start giving birth? Any information you have as to the details of the groups you have interacted with.

[Guest rockinkt]

You appear to have some strong feelings in the matter Magni. But you conveniently left out my first paragraph in stating your position.

I said:

"Yes I don't want to infer that it is only NA's who can have a relationship with sasquatch either, just that as a whole, most NA's have the insight most others may not about nature. Not that these same values aren't taught or evolved from within. And yes, mileage varies between individual people cause some don't. "

As for your example of 'Buffalo Jump'. It might be important that you pointed out that the cliff is only 36 feet tall and 1,000 feet long. Not hundreds of feet tall as your image may portray. Would you say that millions of buffalo fell to their death off a 36' tall cliff? So being the site was used for over 5,000 years, filling in that cliff with bones over time really wouldn't be that significant would it? That's equivalent to about 10 buffalo deep if they were stacked one on another, which of course isn't meant as a visual either other then to show its actual depth. Over thousands of years and given the utilization of all the meat and hides, just what is so devastating about what they did? This was also long before they had firearms too. They preserved the meat and it fed them for as long as it lasted. They knew how to preserve meat. The hides were used for shelter, they didn't just return to their condos after the days hunt. They knew how to use nearly everything from the animals. Do you? Oh and please, show us the evidence of where the cliff disappeared because of it. And while you are digging through history, please make note of how the buffalo was massacred by the newcomer Europeans by the millions JUST for their hide. How dare NA's and First Nations take enough to last them through the seasons. Even while some NA's were responsible for over hunting eventually, that was being influenced by Europeans too and it was NOTHING like what was done to the herds for only a hide.

As for shellfish harvesting. Again please cite how you know they harvested everything and then moved on. Its a very long coastline. You don't seem willing to recognize that a tribe can also recognize when it was time to move with the seasons, or even that they moved so they don't completely deplete a resource. How are shellfish doing today Magni? It was a pretty good population in the early 1900's too wasn't it? Well w/o laws today just how would they be doing?

Its obvious you have strong feelings. You don't seem to appreciate the simpler life they led and that was the point I was making as to what kind of people bigfoot often seems to be more attracted to. People who lived close to the land, which just happens to be NA over Europeans. That doesn't mean there weren't/aren't Europeans as well who live close to the land, because there are. Remember, it was a doctrine for a time to round up and treat the Native People as less than human. That was a sad time in history. Maybe its the same way Sasquatch feel they are being treated? Being hunted, tracked, sought for specimen. Maybe they do see a brotherhood with the continents' original inhabitants? There's many things we don't know about bigfoot or how they perceive us, but if they feel anything like the native people felt in the 1800's, well we are the ones today who should find understanding.

Wow! Romantic notions are not easily dispelled - but I will try to add some facts.

Native Indians in Alberta used buffalo jumps to kill far more buffalo than they could use. That is why there are areas in which the bones are piled 40 feet high in some areas and 25-30 feet thick.

Think of hundreds of buffalo piled high - some dead - others not - thrashing and bleeding and bellowing out in pain. They could get to the ones on top - but the ones 10 or fifteen animals below were impossible to retrieve. The meat rotted long before they could butcher the ones on top and get to them. The Peigans took only the tongues and fetus' - sometimes the humps.

There are lots of reports filed by the NWMounted Police and then the RCMP that note large herds of buffalo that were encircled by the natives and then purposely set ablaze by the use of grass fires. Buffalo that were not killed outright were left to suffer with horrible burns which the officers dispatched out of kindness to end their misery.

The Factors of the Hudson's Bay Company were required to keep detailed records of daily occurrences and transactions. Many had native wives. They wrote of how hard it was to stop the natives from trapping out areas and then being unable to support themselves through trade. Moving the bands from area to area was considered a prime function of trade practice.

Being a stone age culture who had not even invented the wheel yet - it was not inherent goodness that stopped the further exploitation of the land and wildlife - but the inability to do so due to lack of the tools to do so.

You do know that "Grey Owl" was a crazy Brit - right?

Suggested reading... The Ecological Indian: Myth and History

by Shepard Krech III Professor of Anthropology and Director, Haffenreffer Museum of Anthropology

Department of Anthropology

Brown University

W. W. Norton & Company, 1999

[Guest Elisi]

Elisi,

Have you been able to determine the group makeup? Number of males and females? How many youngsters and how often there are new births? What age do the females start giving birth? Any information you have as to the details of the groups you have interacted with.

I live in what I call a transitional area.They come through here from time to time but not many stay here. In the audio there were 5 visible. 2 juveniles and a very young one and then the 2 males.The juvenile with the very young one kept turning and looking back into the trees.I would think they were watching their parents to see where they were.In the last 10 yrs I have only seen one very young one.This young one I have seen several times and always with at least one older juvenile.They are not here now as they have moved to another area.I have only seen 2 adult females over a period of time that I recognize.There are still some who are here in the area but the area is many 100s of acres for them to be on.So they could be in another county in a heartbeat.

[georgerm]

I live in what I call a transitional area.They come through here from time to time but not many stay here. In the audio there were 5 visible. 2 juveniles and a very young one and then the 2 males.The juvenile with the very young one kept turning and looking back into the trees.I would think they were watching their parents to see where they were.In the last 10 yrs I have only seen one very young one.This young one I have seen several times and always with at least one older juvenile.They are not here now as they have moved to another area.I have only seen 2 adult females over a period of time that I recognize.There are still some who are here in the area but the area is many 100s of acres for them to be on.So they could be in another county in a heartbeat.

Where are the BFs going and where are they coming from?

[Guest rockinkt]

There are some stories in this thread that stretch the imagination.

Of course - whose imagination is being stretched is hard to decide.

[Guest rockinkt]

I live in what I call a transitional area.They come through here from time to time but not many stay here. In the audio there were 5 visible. 2 juveniles and a very young one and then the 2 males.The juvenile with the very young one kept turning and looking back into the trees.I would think they were watching their parents to see where they were.In the last 10 yrs I have only seen one very young one.This young one I have seen several times and always with at least one older juvenile.They are not here now as they have moved to another area.I have only seen 2 adult females over a period of time that I recognize.There are still some who are here in the area but the area is many 100s of acres for them to be on.So they could be in another county in a heartbeat.

Wow - 5 squatches at one time. Must have been a great amount of physical evidence. What did you get?

Edited June 14, 2011 by rockinkt

[Guest]

Wow! Romantic notions are not easily dispelled - but I will try to add some facts.

Romantic, now there's a term that should be retired. But hey, works for me!

Native Indians in Alberta used buffalo jumps to kill far more buffalo than they could use. That is why there are areas in which the bones are piled 40 feet high in some areas and 25-30 feet thick.

Think of hundreds of buffalo piled high - some dead - others not - thrashing and bleeding and bellowing out in pain. They could get to the ones on top - but the ones 10 or fifteen animals below were impossible to retrieve. The meat rotted long before they could butcher the ones on top and get to them. The Peigans took only the tongues and fetus' - sometimes the humps.

Accidents happen and frankly you weren't there to know one way or the other. How many decades could it take for bones to pile that deep rockinit? When field dressing an animal that large, you leave the bones there. I don't think they had a cooler to haul em off to for butchering later. But just because bones are that deep, you conclude that they all occurred at once and left unattainable animals below? How do you know this? Were the bones carbon dated to show how close together in time they were deposited? I think there has been a few people in American history who have wanted to paint native peoples in a different light. How history is interpreted and by whom has always interested me because much of it is based on a Romantic view of the old west.

There are lots of reports filed by the NWMounted Police and then the RCMP that note large herds of buffalo that were encircled by the natives and then purposely set ablaze by the use of grass fires. Buffalo that were not killed outright were left to suffer with horrible burns which the officers dispatched out of kindness to end their misery.

Would like to see those reports and the evidence that NA's set all those specific fires. Sounds more like some Romantic views of the old west. And do they have the weather forecasts that showed there was no lightening to the west the day before? How do these RMCP's know the native people didn't just take advantage of the natural range fire situation? Grassland fires are a natural occurrence. I do understand though, the times they did use such methods, well that was much worse then killing buffalo by the millions from trains and only taking the skins. The picture you paint is unrealistic and likely due to a poorly grounded european interpretation of history. Ironically, plains animals know to run through weak areas of fast moving flames when they needed to. Its called survival instincts. Grass fires move fast but they are more easily penetrable head on then people realize.

The Factors of the Hudson's Bay Company were required to keep detailed records of daily occurrences and transactions. Many had native wives. They wrote of how hard it was to stop the natives from trapping out areas and then being unable to support themselves through trade. Moving the bands from area to area was considered a prime function of trade practice.

So would that measure placed on them be after the tribes were forced to stay out of their traditional hunting lands? Shame on them for not having enough food and taking what originally belonged to them.

Being a stone age culture who had not even invented the wheel yet - it was not inherent goodness that stopped the further exploitation of the land and wildlife - but the inability to do so due to lack of the tools to do so.

You do know that "Grey Owl" was a crazy Brit - right?

Suggested reading... The Ecological Indian: Myth and History

by Shepard Krech III Professor of Anthropology and Director, Haffenreffer Museum of Anthropology

Department of Anthropology

Brown University

W. W. Norton & Company, 1999

Rockinkt, Elisi wasn't interested in securing evidence for anyone. I think you might have missed where she's coming from.

[Guest rockinkt]

Romantic, now there's a term that should be retired. But hey, works for me!

Yep - it works perfectly.

Native Indians in Alberta used buffalo jumps to kill far more buffalo than they could use. That is why there are areas in which the bones are piled 40 feet high in some areas and 25-30 feet thick.

Think of hundreds of buffalo piled high - some dead - others not - thrashing and bleeding and bellowing out in pain. They could get to the ones on top - but the ones 10 or fifteen animals below were impossible to retrieve. The meat rotted long before they could butcher the ones on top and get to them. The Peigans took only the tongues and fetus' - sometimes the humps.

Accidents happen and frankly you weren't there to know one way or the other. How many decades could it take for bones to pile that deep rockinit? When field dressing an animal that large, you leave the bones there. I don't think they had a cooler to haul em off to for butchering later. But just because bones are that deep, you conclude that they all occurred at once and left unattainable animals below? How do you know this? Were the bones carbon dated to show how close together in time they were deposited? I think there has been a few people in American history who have wanted to paint native peoples in a different light. How history is interpreted and by whom has always interested me because much of it is based on a Romantic view of the old west.

I have been to the Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump 7 times. How many times have you been there? I have seen for myself the bones and talked to the scientists working there. The site itself talks about I wrote. It's common knowledge!

There are lots of reports filed by the NWMounted Police and then the RCMP that note large herds of buffalo that were encircled by the natives and then purposely set ablaze by the use of grass fires. Buffalo that were not killed outright were left to suffer with horrible burns which the officers dispatched out of kindness to end their misery.

Would like to see those reports and the evidence that NA's set all those specific fires. Sounds more like some Romantic views of the old west. And do they have the weather forecasts that showed there was no lightening to the west the day before? How do these RMCP's know the native people didn't just take advantage of the natural range fire situation? Grassland fires are a natural occurrence. I do understand though, the times they did use such methods, well that was much worse then killing buffalo by the millions from trains and only taking the skins. The picture you paint is unrealistic and likely due to a poorly grounded european interpretation of history. Ironically, plains animals know to run through weak areas of fast moving flames when they needed to. Its called survival instincts. Grass fires move fast but they are more easily penetrable head on then people realize.

The hunts using fire were well organized. They had to gather enough people at the right time under the right weather conditions to set the fires to trap the buffalo. It was no secret that this happened. It is a historical fact. I didn't have to do much digging to discover these facts and neither did Krech (Who in a huge coincidence - also made his home base Grouard when doing his research).

Funny you try and state my knowledge comes form a poorly grounded European interpretation of history when my research was conducted on behalf of and with the tribes in question for their land rights legal cases. (My ancestry on my mother's side is Sto:Lo). The elders were not fools. They told me exactly what they remembered and were told by their forefathers. This was not about Indian politics - this was fact gathering.

North West Mounted Police (NWMP) became the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. (RCMP). They were trusted allies of the majority of tribes as they were charged with protecting the Indians from the idiots.

When Sitting Bull brought his warriors and lodges into Canada after the Little Big Horn fight - They were met by Major J M Walsh of the NW Mounted Police and 6 men. http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/3678.php

Sitting Bull and his people were promised asylum as long as they behaved themselves. Walsh gave guns and ammunition to Sitting Bulls people to hunt buffalo with only their promise that they would not use them for war. Sitting Bull stated numerous times that the redcoats (NWMP) were courageous and honorable and friends to the Indian. So did the other tribes.

It is from the records preserved in the archives that I read the actual handwritten reports by the members of the NWMP and the RCMP about the activities of the tribes. They had no reason to make anything up and their reports were in agreement with many of the elder's stories.

So would that measure placed on them be after the tribes were forced to stay out of their traditional hunting lands? Shame on them for not having enough food and taking what originally belonged to them.

Your ignorance of the difference between what happened in Canada as opposed to what happened in the US regarding settlement and indigenous tribes is amazing! Do some research and get back to me when you have some understanding of the facts.

[Guest LAL]

Running whole herds off cliffs for the tongues when hunting was good may seem cruel to us, but what a break for the prairie grasses!

[Guest]

I understand how people react to things that are usually not something they are familiar with and especially something that stretches most peoples thoughts to a great extreme.I never take anything anyone says as personal but I will express my opinion and try my very hardest to never be disrespectful to anyone.

I didn't know the Bigfoot Research World existed until 2009. Yet I knew about Bigfoot for most of my life.Even though all the documentaries etc had been on tv I had never watched one.I totally understand something that you have known about in a certain way and then come to see this that you know about, looked at in a totally different way.I try to always remember that when people are asking me questions or making comments about what I believe.

I have become very good friends with a lot of researchers who are respected as researchers.They may be open minded more than some and some don't understand what I express to them but they know who I am and know I have no reason to make things up.

Some of the remarks on this forum have been so positive in not closing off the thoughts that there may be something to this as some of the remarks have been the standard remarks of closed minds not willing to even think of the prospect that something else could be going on. I somewhat understand their inability to believe something that seems so ridiculus to them. The first time I heard about call blasting it was hard for me to believe anyone would do something like that.I found out it is done.It was not in my thought process that something like that would ever be done.

This is a touchy subject for so many and pragmatic theorist is right. These kinds of reports and discussions have been discouraged. I have many friends who were part of research groups who were told don't talk about that report,that has to be put in a private file etc. Those who did chose to continue to speak out were chastised or thrown out of the group and then lies told as to why they were thrown out.I had one person say to me I will never tell what I know because if I do the research science world will never do anything for me. This BF World continually amazes me but I see a change.I see more respect coming into it.Nothing ever comes to light if someone is continually trying to keep it in the dark. Too many people are having things happen that they can't explain.There has to be people or places out there for them to be able to post or talk about these things too.I can continue to be labled crazy,nuts,hallucinating or whatever.I will never stop sharing my experiences.If for no other reason that MO posted this on this forum,that one person at least felt safe in talking about an experience they had then all the disrespect and ridicule is worth it to me.

My mind is not closed, but it *has* been *shocked* a lot recently...