Government Coverup?

[Foxhill]

Sure, it would be interesting......once you have a confirmed kill in the freezer and send out a sample. If all the MIBs start showing up or samples start disappearing, spooky visits from obscure agency's.......there ya go that's your conspiracy confirmation

Heck as far as DNA goes there was a deer in WVA supposedly man handled, ripped apart, and partially eaten, that would have been a great opportunity.

[MIB]

34 minutes ago, Foxhill said:

Sure, it would be interesting

 

I would take that one step further ... don't send out ONE sample, send out samples to several labs (yep, $$) and see .. assuming testing is actually done .. if there's any consistency in the results.   If there is a coverup / conspiracy, then you need to try enough different testing facilities to maybe sneak one past their filter.

 

MIB

[Foxhill]

Just now, MIB said:

 

I would take that one step further ... don't send out ONE sample, send out samples to several labs (yep, $$) and see .. assuming testing is actually done .. if there's any consistency in the results.   If there is a coverup / conspiracy, then you need to try enough different testing facilities to maybe sneak one past their filter.

 

MIB

Indeed, completely agree!

[hiflier]

44 minutes ago, Foxhill said:

Sure, it would be interesting......once you have a confirmed kill in the freezer and send out a sample. If all the MIBs start showing up or samples start disappearing, spooky visits from obscure agency's.......there ya go that's your conspiracy confirmation

Heck as far as DNA goes there was a deer in WVA supposedly man handled, ripped apart, and partially eaten, that would have been a great opportunity.

 

Says who?

 

8 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

I would take that one step further ... don't send out ONE sample, send out samples to several labs (yep, $$) and see .. assuming testing is actually done .. if there's any consistency in the results.   If there is a coverup / conspiracy, then you need to try enough different testing facilities to maybe sneak one past their filter.

 

MIB

 

Excellent idea! Go find your labs and when you do give the info to wiiawiwb.

[wiiawiwb]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

Talk to Jeffrey Meldrum.

 

 

I have little, if any, interest in adding DNA testing to my tasks in the field but would consider it if that work was done ahead of time. 

 

I've advocated for the use of thermal imagers and can provide information about companies that produce them, models they sell, and, maybe most importantly, the features they should consider. I would back all of that up with links so someone unfamiliar with them could click and go.

 

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and I can understand completely why many here think maybe it is a game changer. If that effort is going to move forward, by taking it from the idea stage to an actual laundry list, someone needs to take that bull by horns. It's not going to be me.

Edited March 8, 2022 by wiiawiwb

[Wooly Booger]

13 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

 

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and I can understand completely why many here think maybe it is a game changer. If that effort is going to move forward, by taking it from the idea stage to an actual laundry list, someone needs to take that bull by horns. It's not going to be me.

And this is why Bigfoot research has made very little progress in more than half a century. 
 

Lazy and unimaginative “researchers” using the same old tired methods that are doomed to failure. The Bigfoot community has become stagnant and complacent and your comment is a reflection of that. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Wooly Booger

[hiflier]

13 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

I've advocated for the use of thermal imagers and can provide information about companies that produce them, models they sell, and, maybe most importantly, the features they should consider. I would back all of that up with links so someone unfamiliar with them could click and go.

 

Sure, why shouldn't someone spend two grand on a thermal imager that's been proved to be dead end as far as science goes? Be honest, has ANY thermal image of a SUPPOSED Bigfoot really done anything but bring out the hoax arguments? T/I proves nothing. Period. But hey, if your satisfied with that? Then you're satisfied with it. But I wouldn't encourage any one else to go that route. Too expensive, and and only ends in supposition about whatever it captures. Pretty costly zero for a serious researcher if you ask me.

 

22 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and I can understand completely why many here think maybe it is a game changer. If that effort is going to move forward, by taking it from the idea stage

 

First bolded: You are STILL trying to sow doubt and mistrust in the technology. Why?

Second bolded: You make it sound like the science is still in its infancy. Why?

 

Two good questions But I don't expect an answer to either so don't bother.

[Twist]

Do all people in BF research have to all jump on board with new technology?   We abandon methods that work with the vast majority of other animals or species?   There are researchers out there doing DNA testing.  There are researchers out there call blasting.   There are researchers with Flirs, drones, or even drum sets for heavens sakes.    
 

You seem to make the same assumption or mistake hiflier did last week that I pointed out.  The BFF represents just a small fraction of ppl looking for BF.  The posters on here that are active probably represent a small fraction of ppl that view the site.     The methods discussed on here probably only represent a small fraction of peoples efforts.    
 

Making a blanket statement about research based on discussions here on the BFF is rather narrow minded IMO.   

[BlackRockBigfoot]

10 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said:

And this is why Bigfoot research has made very little progress in more than half a century. 
 

Lazy and unimaginative “researchers” using the same old tired methods that are doomed to failure. The Bigfoot community has become stagnant and complacent and your comment is a reflection of that. 

Wiiawiwb is anything but lazy or unimaginative.  
 

I know that you and Hiflier are proponents of DNA collection, but I have not seen a single post from either of you detailing your own efforts at DNA collection or submission  to testing laboratories.  I am not trying to dig at anyone, but these are some pretty inflammatory statements being thrown around.  
 

I again direct everyone to the e-DNA thread.  Several members volunteered to collect samples from areas with possible activity.  The thread and the effort itself went absolutely nowhere.  Where was that passion for the subject then?  A perfect opportunity for someone who believed that this is the best chance at official discovery.

1 minute ago, hiflier said:

 

Sure, why shouldn't someone spend two grand on a thermal imager that's been proved to be dead end as far as science goes? Be honest, has ANY thermal image of a SUPPOSED Bigfoot really done anything but bring out the hoax arguments? T/I proves nothing. Period. But hey, if your satisfied with that? Then you're satisfied with it. But I wouldn't encourage any one else to go that route. Too expensive, and and only ends in supposition about whatever it captures. Pretty costly zero for a serious researcher if you ask me.

 

 

First bolded: You are STILL trying to sow doubt and mistrust in the technology. Why?

Second bolded: You make it sound like the science is still in its infancy. Why?

 

Two good questions But I don't expect an answer to either so don't bother.

Do either of you really believe that you are behaving in such a way as to be good ambassadors of the DNA collection approach?  Serious question.  Every thread seems to veer into how this forum has let you all down with their failures with DNA collection, which has now basically turned into people who spend a lot of time, money, energy, and effort in the field being called lazy.  
 

When you had an opportunity to steer a legitimate DNA collection effort with the willing members of this forum, why did you let that effort just fade away?  That’s not a dig, because I myself don’t have the time or inclination to do it.  But, that matched up perfectly with your skill set and area of enthusiasm.  Did I miss something behind the scenes?  If so, I will gladly be corrected.

 

If you and Wooly really feel this strongly about this… then here is your opportunity to lead by example.  Detail your current efforts with DNA collection and submission.  Show us some promising developments that you are involved with...  Show us best practices at use in proper collection, share information on where to send samples… be a teacher, not a haranguer.  Use photos of you in action to help others understand the benefits of what you so dearly want accomplished.
 

That might move the needle for you with an audience that is already committed to researching this topic.  The incendiary speech just makes everyone want to tune out.  I don’t think that is the result that you are looking for…

[norseman]

21 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said:

And this is why Bigfoot research has made very little progress in more than half a century. 
 

Lazy and unimaginative “researchers” using the same old tired methods that are doomed to failure. The Bigfoot community has become stagnant and complacent and your comment is a reflection of that. 

Everyone brings something to the table. It took me many years to realize that. So brow beating others to your line of thinking doesn’t work. I have tried! 
 

How many sightings do we have every year? Why doesn’t everyone just pack a rifle? Owning and maintaining a rifle and ammo is infinitely cheaper than other approaches in the Bigfoot community. How is my logic unescapable to everyone else? One good shot and boom, end of mystery. A dead body is worth MILLIONS of DNA samples and I don’t even have to guess if the sample is gonna come back positive or not! Holy cow! Why isn’t everyone trying this? 
 

And then reality sets in. Many people don’t get out into the woods. And if they do it’s not a safe area to shoot. Many have never killed anything in their life and don’t plan to start. Some think it’s human, so it’s murder. Some think that if they shoot it “out of season” there will be legal ramifications. Some people are pro kill but could never pull the trigger. So forth and so on.

 

The perfect scenario is to STOP COMPETING with one another and SUPPORT each other. There is no single right way to go about this. Many people get so enthralled in championing a single approach they begin to look down their noses at any other approach…. Not good.

 

A perfect team would have a geneticist, a biologist, several hunters and trackers, optics and camera experts and data analysists. The goal would be to prove the existence of the creature by any means possible. 

 

 

 

[Wooly Booger]

@wiiawiwb I apologize if I came across as excessively harsh in my last reply. I guess my coffee hadn’t kicked in yet LOL
 

But it is somewhat frustrating that we have been able to make significant progress on the subject of discovery for more than half a century. I do think new methods are needed. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Wooly Booger

[norseman]

19 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Sure, why shouldn't someone spend two grand on a thermal imager that's been proved to be dead end as far as science goes? Be honest, has ANY thermal image of a SUPPOSED Bigfoot really done anything but bring out the hoax arguments? T/I proves nothing. Period. But hey, if your satisfied with that? Then you're satisfied with it. But I wouldn't encourage any one else to go that route. Too expensive, and and only ends in supposition about whatever it captures. Pretty costly zero for a serious researcher if you ask me.

 

 

First bolded: You are STILL trying to sow doubt and mistrust in the technology. Why?

Second bolded: You make it sound like the science is still in its infancy. Why?

 

Two good questions But I don't expect an answer to either so don't bother.

Would you rather sample air for DNA in a clear cut that is empty? Or would you rather sample for DNA in a clear cut that has a promising thermal target in it?

 

You both are proponents of technology, but in different fields. Instead of being combative? Wouldn’t it make more sense to work together?

[hiflier]

2 minutes ago, Twist said:

Do all people in BF research have to all jump on board with new technology?

 

Only if they're serious about preserving the creature and it's habitat and know that discovery is the key to that. But most are in denial that anything wrong is going on environmentally that should be corrected. Government and corporate interest must be very pleased with that.

 

7 minutes ago, Twist said:

There are researchers out there doing DNA testing.  There are researchers out there call blasting.   There are researchers with Flirs, drones, or even drum sets for heavens sakes.

 

Yes,thousands and they've been doing it for over 25 years- but not to verify a novel primate. Only a handful have done that. Are those the researchers you are referring to because you make it sound like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a BF researcher using that kind of science.

 

A far as the rest of the quote? Oh yes, all kinds of gadgets like those and a long list of many more not mentioned........but it's only a list of things that have failed and people need to seriously understand that instead of continuing to promote those devices and methods as being the thing that newbies should aspire to. Current researchers are set in their ways which are ways they learned from the researchers of old. It's all just mere imitation o techniques that have been all proved time and time again to not work. None of it, and yet.......nothing changes. And nothing will change. Been here almost ten years and people are still doing the same thing as ten years ago. It didn't work 30 years ago,it didn't work then, and it's not working now.

 

Read the bolded again and tell me it's all good.

 

 

[Twist]

So Flirs were being used 30 years ago in BF research?

So Drones were being used 30 years ago in BF research?

 

So you, Hiflier, have sole discretion on how long a method can be used before it is obsolete and we move on??

 

So how many DNA samples come back negative before you move on from that???    When does that become obsolete in your eyes?  
 

 

[norseman]

Since we are on government coverups here in this thread?

 

Have we gotten anywhere with FOIA requests?