Why has bigfoot not been listed as an endangered species?

[MIB]

10 hours ago, Backdoc said:

QUESTION  if you think the government knows (and thus, is covering ) then 1) who are these scientists 2) why do they feel the need to cover it up 3) what measures are in place to assure they keep it quiet and keep others quiet 4) how is Gimlin still alive and I can watch the PGF on YouTube any time I want. 5) how does Meldrum appear on TV without being silenced and why hasn’t his university been told by the government to fire him? 

 

I have a partial/potential answer to the first one.     A friend's brother worked for a wildlife agency, not sure if it was state or federal.    They found a track line and followed it 3/4ths of a mile.    They said that the tracks went over a log about 4 feet high without disturbing the snow on top.   No slipping, no sliding, no apparent struggle with the snow despite the guys having some trouble not winding up on their butts.   When his brother mentioned it at work, he was told if he reported it, he would be fired, somehow "with cause", thus he'd lose both his job and his pension.    I'm familiar with the general location .. at least I know which canyon they were in .. and it fits right in with our other current thread about where they go in winter.   

 

I think that addresses at least a component of who the scientists are and what is done to keep it quiet.  

 

The rest I think is just through leveraging public ridicule for the topic.    They get more mileage out of letting us show our tries and failures, shenanigans within the community, and other things that heap general ridicule on the topic that stop people from taking it seriously than they would from overt effort to suppress all discussion.    Trying to suppress all discussion might draw attention of people wondering why that effort is being made which might cause some people who are otherwise oblivious to take a more serious look .. in other words, trying to silence us rather than letting us look like fools might be counter-productive.

 

 

[Huntster]

10 hours ago, Backdoc said:

because maybe there is no Bigfoot to hit as it may not exist or maybe it existed in 1967 at bluff creek as was one of the last ones.  With few in number, they aren’t being hit by cars like deer or other typical road kill

 

because it’s more likely what they think they hit wasn’t Bigfoot even if Bigfoot does exist..........

 

Yup. This is clearly so. If they exist, their numbers are extremely low.

 

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.........Also, hitting and killing what you hit are two different dynamics.  First you have see one.  Then you have to hit it.  Then you have to hit in a way you end up killing it. vs have it running away........

 

Actually, you can hit it without ever seeing it, especially at night, which is the most likely time one would be hit. And yes, most large animals (larger than deer) get hit and make it iff the road to die nearby ir even quite a ways off. But I've seen lots of moose over 1000 lbs get hit and die right there on the road. This, too, attests to the low numbers or nonexistence of these animals.

 

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.........no I don’t.   This Government is essentially biological scientists who are diverse and have multiple backgrounds but are governed by the “not proven” mindset.  They are not actively studying this because to do so would harm their careers.
 

QUESTION  if you think the government knows (and thus, is covering ) then 1) who are these scientists........

 

Wildlife biologists, primarily employed by state fish and game agencies, but also by feds overseeing federal classified lands like wildlife refuges. Obviously, due to the low nipumber of these creatures and their selective habitat, not all biologists would know. Just those who happened to come across evidence and those upper level people they quietly reported it to.

 

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........2) why do they feel the need to cover it up.......

 

First, because the stigma of denial surrounding the nature of the myth, then after considering the ramifications of discovery, the wisdom of realizing that the best course is silence. That second factor might be laid out to them after consultation with upper management. As a former government official, I can attest that the initial reaction to any knowledge whatsoever was silence after handing it off to my superiors, and from there the "need to know" ruled.

 

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........3) what measures are in place to assure they keep it quiet and keep others quiet........

 

Institutional behavior. Everybody just knows or perceives. If somebody breaks the protocol (which we see with reports from former or anonymous employees), official denial or ignoring makes said violation just another unconfirmed report.

 

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........4) how is Gimlin still alive and I can watch the PGF on YouTube any time I want.........

 

Killing Gimlin would be more dangerous than productive. Obviously, the practice of official silence has worked for half a century with the film. But that film event was key in official experience. I believe they realized that such an event must be discouraged from happening again. Since the PG filming, the access restrictions, commercial filming permitting rules, and other tightly controlled land and visitor management policies  that they love so dearly have helped them prevent another such discovery opportunity.

 

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.........5) how does Meldrum appear on TV without being silenced and why hasn’t his university been told by the government to fire him? 

 

Passive discrediting and keeping the phenomenon a myth is the better approach than offensively disappearing people and programs. They cannot and never will completely eliminate the phenomenon. It has lived longer than even government has. It has followed our species throughout time. But keeping it in the realm of other myths? Much easier, especially since the species is going extinct, anyways. A thousand years from now, they'll come out with fossils and tell people that another species of human was killed off by our own, and that justifies population control.

[MIB]

2 hours ago, MIB said:

thus he'd lose both his job and his pension. 

 

I forgot a piece .. in addition, likely be blacklisted in his profession so he couldn't get a new job.   When you're let go "with cause" it makes getting another job of that type much more difficult in a field with many applicants to choose from.   If a reference check turns up that you're somehow a troublemaker .. forget it.

[norseman]

1 hour ago, MIB said:

 

I forgot a piece .. in addition, likely be blacklisted in his profession so he couldn't get a new job.   When you're let go "with cause" it makes getting another job of that type much more difficult in a field with many applicants to choose from.   If a reference check turns up that you're somehow a troublemaker .. forget it.

This just proves to me the government is hiding something. 

[MIB]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

This just proves to me the government is hiding something. 

 

Yes .. assuming he's telling the truth.    I don't have any particular reason not to but I haven't heard this directly from anyone else and I have a good bit of contact with such folks.   It's kind of a head scratcher.    I don't want my beliefs to sway my assessment of facts, rather, I'd like to have facts sway my assessment of truth, and I'm not comfortable accepting that either view has a preponderance of actual evidence.    I'm leaving the question on the table, not trying to force a premature conclusion, while I wait and watch.   To me it's a reasonable approach.

[Huntster]

Raincoast Sasquatch details a 1988 nest find on Prince of Wales Island that was intentionally kept low key by the finder (to keep people off private native lands). He (a timber cruiser contracted by the native corporation) reported it to the native land owners. The native group brought a state and federal authority to the nest. The state representation was  F&W biologist, and the fed was a forestry official. A scat sample was collected and sent to the crime lab in Anchorage. Supposedly, it wasn't matchable to any known wildlife known to be in the region, and it was supposedly "thrown out".

 

Does this pass the smell test? Not in my view. But does it fit a conspiracy theory of government discouraging discovery?

 

It fits like a tailored glove...........

 

 

[MIB]

^^^^ Plused for that, and yet at the same time, that account made it to the book.   

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, MIB said:

.........that account made it to the book.   

 

Yup. Small towns. Word gets around.

 

It also needs to be remembered that Paul Freeman worked for the USFS:

 

https://www.richardturgeon.com/blog/2022/8/10/the-bigfoot-freeman-footage-interview-with-michael-freeman-son-of-paul-freeman

 

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.........Paul was discredited by his employers at the Forest Service, and told to keep a lid on it. One of his colleagues was judicious enough to make a note of the encounter, in support of Paul’s credibility and to document what they both felt was a legitimate sighting. Paul, Michael and his siblings were also harassed and subject to ridicule, eventually forcing the family to move out of town..........

 

[Backdoc]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:51 AM, Huntster said:

 

 

First, because the stigma of denial surrounding the nature of the myth, then after considering the ramifications of discovery, the wisdom of realizing that the best course is silence.

 

I appreciate the effort to answer this.  For me at least none of this explains WHY?    What is so important about this Bigfoot thing there is this major need to keep silent?  I’m not seeing it.  

 

The only thing that comes to mind is a matters of National security.   I could understand if someone knew UFOs were real in the invasion-of-Earth-by-hostile-Martians kinda way.    There would be panic and soon and a world where we were being visited by this hostile force and could little about it would be a major deal.  Look how the world reacted just from Sputnik in the 1950s.  
 

 

But…why a need of a Bigfoot cover up?    Why?  So some rare North American ape is out there in the woods and few in number.  The worst that would happen is effort to protect it, study it, and dart one.  The government wouldn’t care much about that.  For any part that did care, there would be several other parts which wouldn’t care.    Still other parts would want to promote the idea of Bigfoot.     

 

Again I can understand if academia in some college wanted to stop serious discussion about Bigfoot until it’s proven.   We can all understand why.  If Bigfoot was proven in the academic circles then the mainstream belief would require the belief in bigfoot.   
 

 

Im sorry I just can’t buy 1) government acting uniformly for a single purpose involving Bigfoot 2) any real negative result on the level of a Martian invasion where there would be a major need to keep it quiet in the interest of the security of the United States.   
 

I’m moving on as I don’t want to be perceived as trying to be argumentative. 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Backdoc said:

 

I appreciate the effort to answer this.  For me at least none of this explains WHY?    What is so important about this Bigfoot thing there is this major need to keep silent?  I’m not seeing it.  

 

The only thing that comes to mind is a matters of National security.   I could understand if someone knew UFOs were real in the invasion-of-Earth-by-hostile-Martians kinda way.    There would be panic and soon and a world where we were being visited by this hostile force and could little about it would be a major deal.  Look how the world reacted just from Sputnik in the 1950s.  
 

 

But…why a need of a Bigfoot cover up?    Why?  So some rare North American ape is out there in the woods and few in number.  The worst that would happen is effort to protect it, study it, and dart one.  The government wouldn’t care much about that.  For any part that did care, there would be several other parts which wouldn’t care.    Still other parts would want to promote the idea of Bigfoot.     

 

Again I can understand if academia in some college wanted to stop serious discussion about Bigfoot until it’s proven.   We can all understand why.  If Bigfoot was proven in the academic circles then the mainstream belief would require the belief in bigfoot.   
 

 

Im sorry I just can’t buy 1) government acting uniformly for a single purpose involving Bigfoot 2) any real negative result on the level of a Martian invasion where there would be a major need to keep it quiet in the interest of the security of the United States.   
 

I’m moving on as I don’t want to be perceived as trying to be argumentative. 

What if many of the people who have gone missing in our parks and forests are the result of an unknown primate species?

 

You don’t think the government’s involvement of a coverup is gonna look very very bad to the Dennis Martin family and countless others?

 

It will as Earth shattering as any Martian invasion….. Sorry about your loved ones sitting in a bone pile in some remote cave that was eaten by a 800 lbs primate we hid from you? 😳

[Huntster]

9 hours ago, Backdoc said:

.........I’m moving on as I don’t want to be perceived as trying to be argumentative. 

 

I understand your difficulty in accepting a government "coverup". Personally, I do not see you as argumentative, and never have. I've always seen your input as extremely well thought out and reasonable.

 

My theory on this is based upon one thought alone: if sasquatches exist, could it be possible that elements of or personnel within government don't know it? I've reasoned that this isn't possible.

 

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.........Im sorry I just can’t buy ............  any real negative result on the level of a Martian invasion where there would be a major need to keep it quiet in the interest of the security of the United States...........

 

I couldn't resist this one:

 

Would government silence mitigate a Martian invasion?

 

I suppose you could say that it would prevent the potential harm done by citizens reacting to the news of an impending Martian invasion, but it certainly wouldn't stop the Martians.

 

Hey! Wouldn't the suppression of sasquatch existence prevent the reaction of the citizenry to the news of the existence of sasquatches?................Hmmmmmmmm............

Edited November 25, 2023 by Huntster

[Backdoc]

On 11/25/2023 at 1:57 AM, norseman said:

What if many of the people who have gone missing in our parks and forests are the result of an unknown primate species?

 

 

Could be.   To me it’s just more probable whatever the cause it is a more typical cause: lost.   Inexperience, injury.  Robbery. Bear arrack. And so on.

 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 1:57 AM, norseman said:

You don’t think the government’s involvement of a coverup is gonna look very very bad to the Dennis Martin family and countless others?

 

 

I dont know the case.  Let me put it this way.   Assume there is something to be covered up.   Some small Part of the government could very well Want to cover it up.   But the bulk of the government and irs many parts might not care.  There are a lot of people who work for the IRS, the veterans Administration, the court system, meat inspectors, and so on.   They could care less.   There is no unified direction of government.  There could be a tiny part of government that cares very much. I don’t see an enforcement mechanism.   
 

cover ups always assume the thing is major enough to get all players in a unified way to cover something up.    Matters of National security...Sure.   Some UFO attack.  Sure.   But, Bigfoot?   Nope.   
 

 

 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 1:57 AM, norseman said:

It will as Earth shattering as any Martian invasion….. Sorry about your loved ones sitting in a bone pile in some remote cave that was eaten by a 800 lbs primate we hid from you? 😳

if there was such a threat, the government via law enforcement and so on would hunt the threat no diff than a fugitive who escaped esp one who was dangerous.   What Governor is going to allow a threat to continue and ignore the danger and not inform the public?   What motivation would they have to do this?   They benefit by knowingly addressing public threats.   It’s in their own self interest regardless of what some other branch of government is motivated by.   
 

worse case scenario.  These things are out there and the government is going to cover up the fact because it doesn’t have the ability to stop Bigfoot attack?   That doesn’t make much sense to me.  It would seem telling some mountain ape is out there carries some benefits even if it wasn’t true.  Also,  the public would demand action and not be happy if the truth leaked out and not much was being done about it.      Further, if you wanted to increase your funding you spread the word about Bigfoot esp if you had proof.   The funding would come easier.   <~~~~~~~  It’s at least possible.   

[Backdoc]

On 11/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Huntster said:

 

 

I couldn't resist this one:

 

Would government silence mitigate a Martian invasion?

 

 

if the Martian encounter was small enough among a small group of people the powerful could keep it quiet.   If it was large enough and enough people were involved -no way.   Esp today with social media .      Say some army group 4-5 guys are sent into the woods because of a report of strange lights.   They come across a downed Russian drone, a flying Martian ET saucer, or a crashed American Satellite.   They could be ordered to keep quiet and likely would.    There is a built in enforcement mechanism..  A private citizen seeing such a thing could be asked, paid off, or threatened.  They might, or might not.   Get several involved and they are all not keeping quiet.  

 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Huntster said:

I suppose you could say that it would prevent the potential harm done by citizens reacting to the news of an impending Martian invasion, but it certainly wouldn't stop the Martians.

 

 

 

100% true.  And no one is stopping Bigfoot.either.   Bigfoot will act for reasons of his own and he won’t check in with the government first.   This makes it impossible for our government to do anything beyond what they would do if a tiger was loose in Yellowstone.   

 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Huntster said:

Hey! Wouldn't the suppression of sasquatch existence prevent the reaction of the citizenry to the news of the existence of sasquatches?................Hmmmmmmmm............

if the citizens don’t know they don’t know  they won’t react up or down.     If they said we got a Bigfoot, my reaction would be “cool tell us more”.    That would be most people’s reaction if they cared beyond a one day news cycle   Many might not. 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Backdoc said:

 

Could be.   To me it’s just more probable whatever the cause it is a more typical cause: lost.   Inexperience, injury.  Robbery. Bear arrack. And so on.

 

 

 

I dont know the case.  Let me put it this way.   Assume there is something to be covered up.   Some small Part of the government could very well Want to cover it up.   But the bulk of the government and irs many parts might not care.  There are a lot of people who work for the IRS, the veterans Administration, the court system, meat inspectors, and so on.   They could care less.   There is no unified direction of government.  There could be a tiny part of government that cares very much. I don’t see an enforcement mechanism.   
 

cover ups always assume the thing is major enough to get all players in a unified way to cover something up.    Matters of National security...Sure.   Some UFO attack.  Sure.   But, Bigfoot?   Nope.   
 

 

 

 

if there was such a threat, the government via law enforcement and so on would hunt the threat no diff than a fugitive who escaped esp one who was dangerous.   What Governor is going to allow a threat to continue and ignore the danger and not inform the public?   What motivation would they have to do this?   They benefit by knowingly addressing public threats.   It’s in their own self interest regardless of what some other branch of government is motivated by.   
 

worse case scenario.  These things are out there and the government is going to cover up the fact because it doesn’t have the ability to stop Bigfoot attack?   That doesn’t make much sense to me.  It would seem telling some mountain ape is out there carries some benefits even if it wasn’t true.  Also,  the public would demand action and not be happy if the truth leaked out and not much was being done about it.      Further, if you wanted to increase your funding you spread the word about Bigfoot esp if you had proof.   The funding would come easier.   <~~~~~~~  It’s at least possible.   

1st part of your response.
 

What does the IRS, the VA or meat inspectors have to do with anything? No one is asking a IRS agent in Washington DC what he thinks about Bigfoot.

 

BLM, USFS, US Park Service. And YES they have their own law enforcement agencies. With state agencies standing in back up.

 

There IS A COVER UP, concerning missing people in National Parks. Let’s start there? This may or may not be contributed to a mystery primate. But their behavior is atrocious.

 

 

Second part of your response.

 

Whats the government’s motive? With UFO’s as a comparison I’ve heard:

 

1) Mass hysteria

2) Government has no control

3) They are demonic

4) They are reverse engineering them but want plausible deniability

5) They have an agreement with the aliens

6) Liability 

 

Concerning Bigfoot? I think #6 stands out if in fact predation or hostages are taken. Which also leads to #2. Maybe they can try to control a park boundary? But North America is a pretty tall order.

 

I just posted up a Bear video in which the Park Service tried to cover up its handling of a deadly night of Bear attacks in Glacier. And why….. And the motive there? Was in the name of park visitor numbers and money. It’s always bad publicity when the park visitors get mauled and eaten. No different than an amusement park ride that begins killing people. Or how about the FBI and national guard stealing a dinosaur from a museum in South Dakota…. The guy that found it served 2 years in prison!

 

The Feds have a long history of being dishonest thugs…..
 

But ultimately? Who knows? It could come down to something as silly as not wanting to “prove the missing link”. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

[Huntster]

10 hours ago, Backdoc said:

.......Assume there is something to be covered up.   Some small Part of the government could very well Want to cover it up.   But the bulk of the government and irs many parts might not care.  There are a lot of people who work for the IRS, the veterans Administration, the court system, meat inspectors, and so on.   They could care less.   There is no unified direction of government.  There could be a tiny part of government that cares very much. I don’t see an enforcement mechanism......... 

 

The enforcement mechanism is the very existence of government. That is, government exists for the very purpose of setting boundaries and enforcing them (although I agree that very concept is under ideological attack and question in this era). Thus, those within government understand the principles and flow of information withholding because they live it on a daily basis. 

 

"Need to know" casts a much wider net than intelligence and law enforcement agencies, as you yourself outline:

 

10 hours ago, Backdoc said:

.......Say some army group 4-5 guys are sent into the woods because of a report of strange lights.   They come across a downed Russian drone, a flying Martian ET saucer, or a crashed American Satellite.   They could be ordered to keep quiet and likely would.    There is a built in enforcement mechanism...........

 

 

 

For those of us within government, it became a joke. "They'd lie even if the truth sounded better." We'd test each other about our individual knowledge of things in order to know if we could talk freely to each other about our experiences. It quickly becomes a learned behavior, both drilled upon you by your employer and honed by your experiences with each other. It becomes one of the reasons why people become lifelong "civil servants", and a reason why government wants you to become a career employee. If you demonstrate that you can keep secrets, or better, even participate in deception, you become more valuable. This is true of every department and agency of every level of government. In times of the utmost peril, this principle is even drilled upon the civilian population. "Loose lips sink ships". "If you see something, say something".........to US, not everybody else........

 

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........cover ups always assume the thing is major enough to get all players in a unified way to cover something up.    Matters of National security...Sure.   Some UFO attack.  Sure.   But, Bigfoot?   Nope........

 

IF sasquatches are, or even possibly can be taxonomically placed within the genus Homo, discovery is a major enough revelation as to significantly affect government at every level surrounding the planet. It might not rise to the planetary threat of invasion by extraterrestrial conquistadors, but it would thrust another stack of human ideology, racial division, ecological struggle, land use crisis, and other problems upon government that they can easily avoid with a behavior of ignorance.

 

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........What Governor is going to allow a threat to continue and ignore the danger and not inform the public?   What motivation would they have to do this?   They benefit by knowingly addressing public threats.   It’s in their own self interest regardless of what some other branch of government is motivated by........

 

Once I had to go with a superior to brief the commanding general of our military post about something that I have long forgotten about.......but how it went down was more significant to me than the issue we briefed him about.......funny how that ended up, no? First we were briefed by his chief of staff, a full bird colonel. This colonel told us to explain to him exactly what we were going to tell the general. He would interrupt us during our brief with the stern command that we were NOT to say this or that to the CG. When he was finished, I was left to wonder why we were there. My superior later explained to me that the colonel was the CGs firewall.......his tool of deniability. But you can believe that the colonel re-briefed and conferred with the CG after we did, and they both discussed the wide spectrum of issues that my superior and I had no clue about which guided the CGs actions.

 

This isn't an aberration; it is how The Beast operates every day, and all through the day. 

 

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........if the citizens don’t know they don’t know  they won’t react up or down.     If they said we got a Bigfoot, my reaction would be “cool tell us more”.    That would be most people’s reaction if they cared beyond a one day news cycle   Many might not. 

 

True; to most people, the discovery would be "cool". But to many others, it would be yet another tool of manipulation to use to their advantage, and that is what government is concerned about. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Huntster